Road bike help for petite female

[lulubel]

I won't go on about how important it is that she gets her saddle to the correct height. I'll just say that I was terrified when I first did it, but I had to do it because I was suffering knee pain from too long riding with the saddle too low. It was much easier than I thought, and I have never fallen off because I couldn't get a foot on the ground quick enough. It's amazing how easy it is to "bounce" off the saddle if you need to get a foot on the ground right now, and your pedals aren't in the right place.

Regarding the brake levers, first of all, if the bars are too high for her, you can probably remedy this by moving the spacers from under the stem (there are probably at least two) to above it. (If you haven't done this before, google it because doing it wrong can damage the headset.

She shouldn't be having any problems with reach, I don't think. I've looked at the frame geometry, and the horizontal top tube measurement is shorter than I've seen on any frame I've looked at. I'm 5ft2, and the top tube on my road bike is 15mm longer. Moving the bars down will increase the reach, though.

Regarding the comments on bars and stem, the handlebars are already compact, and the stem is already short, so I doubt there's much you can change there. I've just changed bars on my bike and gone from a 75mm to 50mm stem, and I wouldn't recommend going that short with narrow bars, especially not for a road bike beginner. Let's say it makes the steering sensitive!

What you can do that might help is move the STI levers higher up on the bars, so the brake hoods are tilted back towards her more. This isn't considered correct, and it will make braking on the drops difficult at best, but if she isn't using the drops, that won't matter at the moment. This will push the brakes into her hands more. I can only get 2 fingers round the brakes when they are in their "correct" position. I can get my whole hand round them if I tilt them up.

For a woman with small hands, braking on the hoods is never easy, even if everything is set up correctly. I learnt very early in my road bike experience to always get on the drops when I was descending. On the hoods, I need to squeeze the levers as hard as I can to stop the bike. On the drops, on a dry road, I can lock the wheels with one finger on the brakes. So, your other option is cross levers, as other people have suggested, which won't give fantastic braking power, but will stop the bike in most situations. And if she thinks she'll need more braking power, she needs to get on the drops.

 

[Amanda P]

Out of interest which ergo campy shifters do you have? A link if you can please?

I think she has Centaur or Veloce, 10-speed (so older models).

Old Campag 10-speed levers work perfectly with Shimano 8-speed casettes. Other combinations also work, but check before you part with your cash. I'd also counsel against any lever which has a plastic gearshift paddle - in my experience, they always snap off sooner or later - sooner in the hands of an inexperienced or unsympathetic rider who continues to try to shift when they're already at the top or the bottom of the cassette (not that I'm suggesting your partner would do such a thing. I do it though!).

Used ones with alloy paddles come up second hand now and again, and it's worth hanging on for those.

I have no experience of newer Campag levers; they look bigger and bulkier to me, but as they won't work with the transmissions we have on any of our bikes, I wouldn't know.

 

[coffeejo]

What you can do that might help is move the STI levers higher up on the bars, so the brake hoods are tilted back towards her more. This isn't considered correct, and it will make braking on the drops difficult at best, but if she isn't using the drops, that won't matter at the moment. This will push the brakes into her hands more. I can only get 2 fingers round the brakes when they are in their "correct" position. I can get my whole hand round them if I tilt them up.

For a woman with small hands, braking on the hoods is never easy, even if everything is set up correctly. I learnt very early in my road bike experience to always get on the drops when I was descending. On the hoods, I need to squeeze the levers as hard as I can to stop the bike. On the drops, on a dry road, I can lock the wheels with one finger on the brakes. So, your other option is cross levers, as other people have suggested, which won't give fantastic braking power, but will stop the bike in most situations. And if she thinks she'll need more braking power, she needs to get on the drops.

+1

Another shortie here with a similar problem - after a lot of fiddling about and trying different set ups, I've now got my hoods tilted back so that I can reach the brakes and use them when I'm on the hoods but they're most effective when I'm on the drops, which I always use for descents.

 

[SatNavSaysStraightOn]

The saddle wont go any lower into the frame even if seatpost was shorter. Yes shes on tiptoes when in the saddle.. I get you saying normally shouldnt be able to touch the ground in saddle but as a beginner sometimes you need to get off quickly/safely so she isnt confident in having the saddle put upwards... its not like her legs are in a wrong poisition relative to pedals at present... definitely not having her knees coming up too high when riding. Remember she is 4ft10 so short legged. So its probably the case that the handlebars will have to go down with an inverted stem riser or something.

Is it worth paying £75/100 for a fitting or doing a DIY with youtube vids?

I think her confidence is the thing you are going to have to work on and the abilty to stop the bike quickly is just as important - I think she will find the cross levers a considerable improvement (along with changing to the compound of the brake blocks to something more responsive - they will wear out more quickly though, so do remember to look at them from time to time).

Is she using normal pedals, without toeclips (not talking about spd's or clipless here - unless you have gone that way which would surprise me as a beginner). If she is using normal everyday pedals without toeclips then she will have no issues in getting her foot down on the ground quickly enough and it is just a case of confidence - I find the use of curbs to be really helpful here - the curb is just the right height usually for me to be able to stay in the saddle and stop with a toe on the curb.

I am not certain paying for a fit is going to acheive anything other than someone else telling her the saddle is meant to be higher and you are not meant to be able to stop and stay in the saddle without the aid of something like a curb. If she has no toeclips and normal pedals to start off with, she will very quickly work out how to get off the saddle and be able to stop safely. from there you can get the saddle the correct height at which point a bike fit may be useful.

I can understand it sounds like we are all pushing to get the saddle higher, and we are, because we all know she will never get comfortable on the bike and risks knee damage (potentially permanent knee damage) if that saddle height is not correct to start off with. I have recently had to change the seat post on my (new) mountain bike becuase it was too short and I could not straighen my legs enough to prevent an injury which has taken 3 physio visits and well over 10 days so far to heal simply because my saddle was only 1.5cm too low.

I would personally start with little steps. Don't change the stem or the bars they are not going to help her instantly, if anything as lulubel mentions a shorter stem and narrower bars make you more unstable not more stable (I have a short stem and narrower bars and am still adjusting to the more twitchy bike issues). Get the cross levers added - from what I am reading she either does not have the reach in her fingers or the physical strenght in them to apply the brakes - neither do I and there was no way in hell I was going out on my road bike until I had that issue sorted and I am a relatively experienced cyclist (having had to abort cycling around the world after 12 months).

Once she is happier with the bike, get her to practice stopping and getting off the saddle rather than remaining on it. then you can look at getting the saddle to the correct height. Only when the saddle is at the correct height can you realistically know if there is an issue with the height of the bars. Just accept them where they are for the moment and fit the cross levers to deal with the stopping issues.

The alternative is to consider the fact that the bike is not suitable for her and look at a cyclocross or hybrid bike or take her back over to mountain bikes and fit slick tyres for road use.

 

[BORIS397]

I won't go on about how important it is that she gets her saddle to the correct height. I'll just say that I was terrified when I first did it, but I had to do it because I was suffering knee pain from too long riding with the saddle too low. It was much easier than I thought, and I have never fallen off because I couldn't get a foot on the ground quick enough. It's amazing how easy it is to "bounce" off the saddle if you need to get a foot on the ground right now, and your pedals aren't in the right place.

Regarding the brake levers, first of all, if the bars are too high for her, you can probably remedy this by moving the spacers from under the stem (there are probably at least two) to above it. (If you haven't done this before, google it because doing it wrong can damage the headset.

She shouldn't be having any problems with reach, I don't think. I've looked at the frame geometry, and the horizontal top tube measurement is shorter than I've seen on any frame I've looked at. I'm 5ft2, and the top tube on my road bike is 15mm longer. Moving the bars down will increase the reach, though.

Regarding the comments on bars and stem, the handlebars are already compact, and the stem is already short, so I doubt there's much you can change there. I've just changed bars on my bike and gone from a 75mm to 50mm stem, and I wouldn't recommend going that short with narrow bars, especially not for a road bike beginner. Let's say it makes the steering sensitive!

What you can do that might help is move the STI levers higher up on the bars, so the brake hoods are tilted back towards her more. This isn't considered correct, and it will make braking on the drops difficult at best, but if she isn't using the drops, that won't matter at the moment. This will push the brakes into her hands more. I can only get 2 fingers round the brakes when they are in their "correct" position. I can get my whole hand round them if I tilt them up.

For a woman with small hands, braking on the hoods is never easy, even if everything is set up correctly. I learnt very early in my road bike experience to always get on the drops when I was descending. On the hoods, I need to squeeze the levers as hard as I can to stop the bike. On the drops, on a dry road, I can lock the wheels with one finger on the brakes. So, your other option is cross levers, as other people have suggested, which won't give fantastic braking power, but will stop the bike in most situations. And if she thinks she'll need more braking power, she needs to get on the drops.

Thanks for that; we have tilted the bars upwards already. It helps allittle but not much. Yes she finds the bike twitchy because as you say this already has a compact stem and bar width.... adding the cross levers and therefore having your hands placed even closer together will makes things more unstable... hmmm... not the best for a beginner.

 

[BORIS397]

I think she has Centaur or Veloce, 10-speed (so older models).

Old Campag 10-speed levers work perfectly with Shimano 8-speed casettes. Other combinations also work, but check before you part with your cash. I'd also counsel against any lever which has a plastic gearshift paddle - in my experience, they always snap off sooner or later - sooner in the hands of an inexperienced or unsympathetic rider who continues to try to shift when they're already at the top or the bottom of the cassette (not that I'm suggesting your partner would do such a thing. I do it though!).

Used ones with alloy paddles come up second hand now and again, and it's worth hanging on for those.

I have no experience of newer Campag levers; they look bigger and bulkier to me, but as they won't work with the transmissions we have on any of our bikes, I wouldn't know.

Went to LBS yesterday and they had some centaur ergo in.. they didnt look any smaller than shimano soras she has already

 

[lulubel]

Thanks for that; we have tilted the bars upwards already. It helps allittle but not much. Yes she finds the bike twitchy because as you say this already has a compact stem and bar width.... adding the cross levers and therefore having your hands placed even closer together will makes things more unstable... hmmm... not the best for a beginner.

I didn't mean tilt the bars upwards. I meant move the STI levers further up on the bars (involves re-wrapping the bar tape). I've just put new bars and stem on my bike, and the difference you can make to rider comfort and ease of using the controls just by re-positioning the STI levers is very surprising. My bike went from almost impossible for me to ride at my first attempt to the most comfortable setup I've ever had at my most recent. Moving the levers up on the bars will generally give shorter reach on the hoods and longer reach on the drops, and vice versa.

Also, if she's used to riding a flat barred bike, she will find it twitchy at first. That's normal. I've done 3 rides with my shorter stem now, and it felt uncomfortably twitchy on the first ride, but by the 3rd ride felt absolutely fine. Nothing's changed, but I've adapted to it. It takes longer to adapt when it's your first time riding a road bike, but it does happen.

 

[BORIS397]

I think her confidence is the thing you are going to have to work on and the abilty to stop the bike quickly is just as important - I think she will find the cross levers a considerable improvement (along with changing to the compound of the brake blocks to something more responsive - they will wear out more quickly though, so do remember to look at them from time to time).

Is she using normal pedals, without toeclips (not talking about spd's or clipless here - unless you have gone that way which would surprise me as a beginner). If she is using normal everyday pedals without toeclips then she will have no issues in getting her foot down on the ground quickly enough and it is just a case of confidence - I find the use of curbs to be really helpful here - the curb is just the right height usually for me to be able to stay in the saddle and stop with a toe on the curb.

I am not certain paying for a fit is going to acheive anything other than someone else telling her the saddle is meant to be higher and you are not meant to be able to stop and stay in the saddle without the aid of something like a curb. If she has no toeclips and normal pedals to start off with, she will very quickly work out how to get off the saddle and be able to stop safely. from there you can get the saddle the correct height at which point a bike fit may be useful.

I can understand it sounds like we are all pushing to get the saddle higher, and we are, because we all know she will never get comfortable on the bike and risks knee damage (potentially permanent knee damage) if that saddle height is not correct to start off with. I have recently had to change the seat post on my (new) mountain bike becuase it was too short and I could not straighen my legs enough to prevent an injury which has taken 3 physio visits and well over 10 days so far to heal simply because my saddle was only 1.5cm too low.

I would personally start with little steps. Don't change the stem or the bars they are not going to help her instantly, if anything as lulubel mentions a shorter stem and narrower bars make you more unstable not more stable (I have a short stem and narrower bars and am still adjusting to the more twitchy bike issues). Get the cross levers added - from what I am reading she either does not have the reach in her fingers or the physical strenght in them to apply the brakes - neither do I and there was no way in hell I was going out on my road bike until I had that issue sorted and I am a relatively experienced cyclist (having had to abort cycling around the world after 12 months).

Once she is happier with the bike, get her to practice stopping and getting off the saddle rather than remaining on it. then you can look at getting the saddle to the correct height. Only when the saddle is at the correct height can you realistically know if there is an issue with the height of the bars. Just accept them where they are for the moment and fit the cross levers to deal with the stopping issues.

The alternative is to consider the fact that the bike is not suitable for her and look at a cyclocross or hybrid bike or take her back over to mountain bikes and fit slick tyres for road use.

Yes she is using normal cheapo clipless pedals for now.. wow that is a bit of a eye opener that 1.5cm error saddle height gave you knee damage ... gulp. we went on a 15mile ride yesterday and I did notice that actually her knees were coming a bit high and she was in a bit of abdominal pain when we finished. I totally get what you saying about the confidence required on re saddle height.. something we will have to work on for her own health sake! Thanks once more for taking the time to help!

 

[BORIS397]

I didn't mean tilt the bars upwards. I meant move the STI levers further up on the bars (involves re-wrapping the bar tape). I've just put new bars and stem on my bike, and the difference you can make to rider comfort and ease of using the controls just by re-positioning the STI levers is very surprising. My bike went from almost impossible for me to ride at my first attempt to the most comfortable setup I've ever had at my most recent. Moving the levers up on the bars will generally give shorter reach on the hoods and longer reach on the drops, and vice versa.

Also, if she's used to riding a flat barred bike, she will find it twitchy at first. That's normal. I've done 3 rides with my shorter stem now, and it felt uncomfortably twitchy on the first ride, but by the 3rd ride felt absolutely fine. Nothing's changed, but I've adapted to it. It takes longer to adapt when it's your first time riding a road bike, but it does happen.

Oh I see move the levers up... yes something we will try especially also if we do put the saddle up the distance to hoods will increase therefore making her more unable to brake that at present.. and also to try some brake blocks with better stopping power... anyone recommend any??

 

[Kins]

People seem to like Koolstops or Halt Gooey when I asked the same question. I bought some koolstop salmons but have yet to fit them.

 

[Peteaud]

Mrs Aud is 5 foot and rides XS

She recently wanted a new road bike and after trying many went for the 2300 equiped specialized Dolce. She didnt like the reach on either Sora or Sram, she said the "tops are too fat" and she said the 2300 button was easier for her. she reached the brake lever ok

Not sure if that is any help but maybe worth trying a 2300 equiped bike just to see??

 

[PpPete]

Went to LBS yesterday and they had some centaur ergo in.. they didnt look any smaller than shimano soras she has already

I think you have to try them on a set of bars to be sure, they are a very different shape, and the angle of the brake leer is different (closer to the bend in the bar)
Mrs PpP finds Campag 10 speed Veloce levers comfortable to brake with, although she is by no means as "vertically challenged" as 4'10", we've had a lot of reach issues to contend with.
They are good fit with Shimano 8 speed running gear, or with a simple cable re-routing, Shimano 9 speed.

 

[wanda2010]

Hi OP, I've breezed through this thread as I'm 'busy ' working. I'm an inch taller than your beloved and my roadie is a 43cm with 650c wheels. It's a Trek 1.2 2010 model which they've stopped making . As already mentioned, getting the right sized frame is harder to find, but makes tweaking the 'bits' easier.

Check out these links when you have time for additional ideas/information.

http://www.lfgss.com/thread46928.html

http://www.lfgss.com/thread47435.html

I've been toying with the idea of buying a Luath small for the past year and a bit having heard good things about it from another shortie. I'll probably take the plunge later in the year as a birthday present.

 

[hobbitonabike]

I'm a little taller at 5'2" and have read this thread with interest. I struggle with the reach for the brake levers when on the tops. I have a 48cm Cannondale Synapse and to reach the brake levers with a decent amount of pressure I have to rotate my hands outwards so my thumb is on the tops rather than the 'v' of my thumb and hard. Does that make sense?? Not exactly ideal and can be a bit nerve wracking at times lol. Can't face the thought of the cross brake levers (think it's vanity to be honest!!) On the drops it's the 'two finger grab' for the levers!

 

[wanda2010]

EW that doesn't sound very safe for you. Have you thought about changing your setup?

The joys of being short cannot be overestimated