RIP Freddie Starr

[theclaud]

Sure, can you acknowledge his own upbringing played a major part in the person he became, his daughter does. Where exactly do we start this story and where do we actually point the finger of blame.

Also, people are quite capable of holding contradictory views at the same time. Life is complex, people are complex, the reasons life's complex is complex. Beating a single drum and using it too browbeat others to your view often achieves the opposite affect, even if you're right, another complexity of life.

I don't think anyone is disputing the complexity of life. The issue for me is with the function of the RIP ritual, which as SB says, is not much concerned with illuminating the complexities of an individual but does a lot of the work of perpetuating a particular narrative - that of the 'innocent' pleasures of yesteryear being under assault by some meanie peecee crowd who insist on dredging up things that threaten to spoil the fun and complicate the memories. A while back I wrote in the Stuart Hall thread, about the disappointment of hearing Ronnie Corbett sidestep the issue of Rolf Harris's career of abuse. To grow up in that era as a girl was to feel as described by Karin Ward - that the casual objectification and abuse of women was the very fabric of the culture and the essence of everyday normality. The reason people feel so uncomfortable about being asked to re-evaluate the past is precisely the reason we need to do it. There's a reason Starr's lawyer thanks his fans whilst he denigrates his accusers - he understands every bit as well as I do that the two things are inseparable.

"He's a man of good character, remains a man of good character, and I would ask the public now to stand by this man. No doubt about it, his innocence has been proven."

Mr Starr said he was "very relieved" and, asked if he had a message for his fans, said: "Thank you."​

 

[Crackle]

I don't think anyone is disputing the complexity of life. The issue for me is with the function of the RIP ritual, which as SB says, is not much concerned with illuminating the complexities of an individual but does a lot of the work of perpetuating a particular narrative - that of the 'innocent' pleasures of yesteryear being under assault by some meanie peecee crowd who insist on dredging up things that threaten to spoil the fun and complicate the memories. A while back I wrote in the Stuart Hall thread, about the disappointment of hearing Ronnie Corbett sidestep the issue of Rolf Harris's career of abuse. To grow up in that era as a girl was to feel as described by Karin Ward - that the casual objectification and abuse of women was the very fabric of the culture and the essence of everyday normality. The reason people feel so uncomfortable about being asked to re-evaluate the past is precisely the reason we need to do it. There's a reason Starr's lawyer thanks his fans whilst he denigrates his accusers - he understands every bit as well as I do that the two things are inseparable.

"He's a man of good character, remains a man of good character, and I would ask the public now to stand by this man. No doubt about it, his innocence has been proven."

Mr Starr said he was "very relieved" and, asked if he had a message for his fans, said: "Thank you."​

Perhaps not disputing the complexity but certainly ignoring aspects of it. Anything has more than one narrative to it and I don't necessarily agree with your, peecee about spoiling innocent pleasures of yesteryear. Like I said, I'm pretty sure people are aware of the duality of Freddie Starr, they may not choose to voice it, that may be a way of dealing with something quite dark. Of course you might be right about one or two but they are perhaps beyond the corrections you can make in a cycling forum.

What I most often see is people reacting to being told how they should think about something, not to the substance of the subject.

 

[Markymark]

We should be able to separate the person and the star. It’s a shame that the PeeCee brigade tell me off for saying what a skilful driver John Warboys was or what a great caretaker Ian Huntley was but I like to see beyond what they did in their private life....

 

[Rocky]

What I most often see is people reacting to being told how they should think about something, not to the substance of the subject.

I have tried to frame my comments as a question: can we acknowledge...etc?

I have deliberately not tried to tell people what to think.