Rim or disk brakes on same bike, why the extra price?

[raleighnut]

But the money saved replacing wheels every couple of years on rim brake bikes outweighs the extra cost for a disc brake bike. For that and many other reasons, discs are for me.

I've never worn a rim out, don't get me wrong I've trashed a few wheels but generally through breaking spokes or 'dinging' the rim too badly to be fixed. Maybe it's my riding technique.

 

[YellowV2]

For me rim brakes are fine on a road bike, they provide enough power to lock the wheels, the modulation is good therefore I don’t need more. That applies to all my set ups Veloce/Chorus/Athena on three different bikes. I don’t understand how disc are better? Possibly in the wet or maybe for a dedicated commuter bike but even there personally I find rim brakes perfectly ok.
Yes some may point to rim wear and maybe with some justification but personally I think it’s nice to have new wheels from time to time. It’s more a case of the industry looking for something new to convince buyers it’s necessary and therefore selling more bikes.

 

[screenman]

For me rim brakes are fine on a road bike, they provide enough power to lock the wheels, the modulation is good therefore I don’t need more. That applies to all my set ups Veloce/Chorus/Athena on three different bikes. I don’t understand how disc are better? Possibly in the wet or maybe for a dedicated commuter bike but even there personally I find rim brakes perfectly ok.
Yes some may point to rim wear and maybe with some justification but personally I think it’s nice to have new wheels from time to time. It’s more a case of the industry looking for something new to convince buyers it’s necessary and therefore selling more bikes.

I see it as the industry giving us choice, my choice would be discs. I can certainly feel the difference in braking performance between my disc and rimmed braked bikes. None of my bikes run low end equipment, so I am comparing like for like in terms of quality.

 

[YellowV2]

Except that they aren’t giving a choice are they! There are very few road bikes from the major manufacturers offering rim brakes any longer.
I am not saying you cannot tell a difference but is it necessarily any better?
More power if it’s not useable isn’t any better in my opinion. I cannot stop any more quickly or safely with discs than rim brakes, as ultimately I only have the same contact area with the road.

 

[Heltor Chasca]

...I cannot stop any more quickly or safely with discs than rim brakes, as ultimately I only have the same contact area with the road.

What even in the wet and muck?

 

[si_c]

For me rim brakes are fine on a road bike, they provide enough power to lock the wheels, the modulation is good therefore I don’t need more. That applies to all my set ups Veloce/Chorus/Athena on three different bikes. I don’t understand how disc are better? Possibly in the wet or maybe for a dedicated commuter bike but even there personally I find rim brakes perfectly ok.
Yes some may point to rim wear and maybe with some justification but personally I think it’s nice to have new wheels from time to time. It’s more a case of the industry looking for something new to convince buyers it’s necessary and therefore selling more bikes.

It's really not.

Discs are better in a whole host of ways - more powerful braking, better modulation or control, less lever force required, more consistent braking across weather conditions. Rim brakes do work very well and setup properly they are totally suited to the job, but the advantages of disc brakes are cumulative and make for a better overall experience. Which is why people who use disc brakes invariable get a bit evangelical about them.

 

[YellowV2]

What even in the wet and muck?

Yes on roads for the reason stated, that the contact area is the same.

 

[Yellow Saddle]

Except that they aren’t giving a choice are they! There are very few road bikes from the major manufacturers offering rim brakes any longer.
I am not saying you cannot tell a difference but is it necessarily any better?
More power if it’s not useable isn’t any better in my opinion. I cannot stop any more quickly or safely with discs than rim brakes, as ultimately I only have the same contact area with the road.

There's plenty of choice to be had and will be for a long time.

Hydraulic disc brakes have several advantages over their rim cousins.

1) Wet weather performance. If you dispute this, you need to get out and ride in the rain. The difference is huge and may I say, big enough to in some cases, to decide between life or death.
2) Wet weather durability. If you regularly ride in the wet, you will have to keep on fitting new rims. Not often, maybe every two years, but often enough to experience downtime, cost and, the problem of finding the exact same rim. The latter not for vanity, but for not having to replace spokes too.
3) Cleanliness. When braking in the wet with rim brakes, enough black mess comes off the rims to soil your clothes and certainly, make the bike look horrible.
4) Reliability. Cable brakes require frequent cable changes for optimum operation and safety. Between cable changes, the deterioration in feel is noticeable.
5) Feel. Good hydraulic brakes work and feel great. Smooth, confidence-inspiring and adjustable to your taste.
6) Set-and-forget. Rim brakes require cable adjustments as the pads wear and you have to watch the pad on that short arm of the dual-pivot variety. That one wears unevenly.
7) Disc brakes are the best option for deep-section carbon wheels. Carbon rims, whilst useful for certain situations are extremely poor at rim braking. Not just from performance, but also from a durability point of view. Disc brakes can make them useful and safe.
8) Disc brakes offer unlimited tyre clearance and without sacrificing performance.

Disc brakes aren't perfect.
1) Cable discs combine the worst of both worlds.
2) Discs make wheels difficult to clean. Only the fastidious need to worry about this.
3) Noise
4) Misunderstanding from professionals and amateurs regarding compatibility of resin and metal discs and pads and the consequences thereof.
5) Idiots who always suggest a bleed for every single possible problem on a disc. I think these people bleed their cable discs too.
6)Endless discussions from retro-grouches who lament the demise of the inferior.

 

[Yellow Saddle]

Except that they aren’t giving a choice are they! There are very few road bikes from the major manufacturers offering rim brakes any longer.
I am not saying you cannot tell a difference but is it necessarily any better?
More power if it’s not useable isn’t any better in my opinion. I cannot stop any more quickly or safely with discs than rim brakes, as ultimately I only have the same contact area with the road.

Brakes don't produce power, only force.
However, more force is not what they're about. It is about more usable force in a better modulated way.
Contact area has nothing to do with brake performance.

You can't use fallacies of physics to build an argument against disc brakes.

 

[YellowV2]

It's really not.

Discs are better in a whole host of ways - more powerful braking, better modulation or control, less lever force required, more consistent braking across weather conditions. Rim brakes do work very well and setup properly they are totally suited to the job, but the advantages of disc brakes are cumulative and make for a better overall experience. Which is why people who use disc brakes invariable get a bit evangelical about them.

Obviously we are never going to agree! As I’ve said more power is irrelevant as the limiting factor is the tyre contact area with the road surface. With regards to modulation I don’t agree and also with decent rim brakes set up properly lever force is not a problem but as I said we are obviously not going to agree 😔

 

[YellowV2]

Brakes don't produce power, only force.
However, more force is not what they're about. It is about more usable force in a better modulated way.
Contact area has nothing to do with brake performance.

You can't use fallacies of physics to build an argument against disc brakes.

It may not have any bearing on braking performance but it is the limiting factor in stopping ability and the need for extra force delivered by discs.
I think you fully understand what is commonly referred to as braking power even if it isn’t the correct terminology from an engineering/ physics perspective.
I would disagree and invite you prove your point about the choice of new rim brake models being offered by the major manufacturers. Most of their road models especially those aimed at the so called sportive market are not now being offered with rim brakes.
I don’t disagree with the other points you make, whether that makes discs any more suitable for road bikes is a matter of opinion and my opinion is no they aren’t.

 

[si_c]

Obviously we are never going to agree! As I’ve said more power is irrelevant as the limiting factor is the tyre contact area with the road surface. With regards to modulation I don’t agree and also with decent rim brakes set up properly lever force is not a problem but as I said we are obviously not going to agree 😔

Clearly not, but that doesn't mean you are right. I've ridden tens of thousands of miles on disc braked bikes and they are far and away a superior solution to rim brakes. I've got rim braked bikes too and they are lighter and easier to maintain than the discs but they are not better.

You keep bringing up that braking is limited by the contact patch on the tyre and completely ignoring that this is largely irrelevant when it comes to braking distance and control as if that truly was the limit then applying your brakes as hard as you could would mean that you just skidded.

I can stop in almost exactly the same distance on discs in the pissing wet as I can in the dry. This is just not possible with rim brakes. The lever force required for hydraulics is also much much less than for rim brakes for the same amount of braking force, again this is not debatable it's simple physics.

The fact that you keep repeating the same points over and over just means that you have no experience using disc brakes - everyone who has used them agrees they are better for the same reasons.

 

[Threevok]

5) Idiots who always suggest a bleed for every single possible problem on a disc. I think these people bleed their cable discs too.

 

[Yellow Saddle]

It may not have any bearing on braking performance but it is the limiting factor in stopping ability and the need for extra force delivered by discs.

This proves that you don't understand the subject at all. Calling it opinion doesn't get you off the hook.
One really shouldn't comment authoritatively on topics you don't understand. That's the primary reason why I don't offer advice on ricocheting violin techniques.

 

[YellowV2]

I’m sorry but I don’t believe I am looking to get ‘’off the hook’’, I am merely giving my opinion, which if I am not mistaken that is what a forum is for? If that’s not the case then I sincerely apologise!
I’m very sorry do disagree again I absolutely do understand the subject but as you don’t like people having a different opinion to yours I shall offer no further views or input to the post and bow to your obviously superior knowledge.
I shall however continue to prefer rims brakes😉