Riding on drops

[Rob3rt]

You will develop maximum power within a fairly narrow range of hip angle. Some of this is basic anatomical limits, other is more to do with rider flexibility & yet more is training. If you've not been training with a closed hip angle it's not going to work.

On recumbents you have to train into your seat/bottom bracket angle. It's actually impossible to duplicate the seating position across all of my 'bents. This means I have a 2 or 3 day adaptation period between certain bikes & is a reason I'll be replacing one of my 'bents.

I don't know if you are suggesting I am wrong, but if you are, I disagree, this is biggest compromise one faces with regards to their TT position. The steep seat tube angles rotate the rider forward around the ankle joint allowing the front end to be lower without closing the hip angle to the same degree you would do by simply lowering the front end. This reduces the frontal area whilst maintaining a hip angle open enough to output the highest power possible.

Riding in the drops suffers the same issue, if your position is not goodl, you will end up cramped and not being able to push as hard. You can only practically overcome this to a certain degree (through training and flexability work, as I said above with regards to going back and looking at position as your flexability improves) and it would be more beneficial to just get the fit right so you get the best compromise between frontal area and power output from the off, rather than training solely to increase power output at a new hip angle, which will not be preserved when you are riding in another position on the bike.

As monty said, one way to open the hip angle is to slide forward a little bit, but this is only possible if the bike fit is good for it, otherwise you will end up riding like the hunch back!

 

[screenman]

Not sure if I am getting slated for suggesting a few stretches or not.

 

[Rob3rt]

Not sure if I am getting slated for suggesting a few stretches or not.

Not by me you are not, I agree, stretching to increase flexibility is a good thing.

 

[black'n'yellow]

Not sure if I am getting slated for suggesting a few stretches or not.

I wouldn't have thought so. The pic suggestion is perfectly reasonable and stretching certainly wouldn't do any harm..

 

[GrasB]

I don't know if you are suggesting I am wrong, but if you are, I disagree, this is biggest compromise one faces with regards to their TT position. The steep seat tube angles rotate the rider forward around the ankle joint allowing the front end to be lower without closing the hip angle to the same degree you would do by simply lowering the front end. This reduces the frontal area whilst maintaining a hip angle open enough to output the highest power possible.

I'm suggesting that what you say as an absolute isn't. Opening your hip angle too much can also cause a reduction in maximal effort power (though it tends to be masked as people find it easier to drive into anaerobic power production standing up). Typically a TT aerobar position is actually more closed than a road bike on the drops.

 

[Rob3rt]

I'm suggesting that what you say as an absolute isn't. Opening your hip angle too much can also cause a reduction in maximal effort power (though it tends to be masked as people find it easier to drive into anaerobic power production standing up). Typically a TT aerobar position is actually more closed than a road bike on the drops.

It is yes but the aero benefit is much greater than the drops so you strike a balance and the risk of going too far the other way on a road bike is an unlikely occurance.

Transitioning from the hoods to the drops on a road bike isn't that dramatic if the bike is well set up and you ride it with a degree of elbow flex as often recommended, if it is poorly set up or you ride in a certain way such as with your arms locked out in the hoods then bent at near 90 degrees when on the drops, the 2 positions can be fairly different. My point was that you are trying to find the right balance between capacity to output power and the associated aero benefits of the ride position in the drops just as you are with a TT position, it is not as dramatical but you still ought to look at the fit, especially if you notice such a dramatic drop of in pushing power that you need to shift to an easier gear. Even in the case you are not used to it so much, the position change should be somewhat subtle so the power drop off, if any, minor, so the aero benefit should see your exertion level decrease, if it is going the other way, something is wrong.

Come at the problem from all angles is my opinion.

 

[totallyfixed]

The reason you put out less on the drops [and everyone has touched on it] from the hoods or indeed from higher to lower positioning on a TT bike is physiologically simple, the smaller the angle [call it hip if you like] between torso and thighs, the more the diaphragm is compressed which of course restricts the lungs to fully inflate. This is why those of us in the TT world are always trying to find the best compromise between power output and CdA [cycling aerodynamics]. Test the theory by bending in a chair at different angles and taking deep breaths.

 

[Rob3rt]

Both that and muscularly it is more difficult to pull something open from an acute angle (when you can only apply force in a certain direction anyway). Finding an easy to picture example is alluding me right now, but I am pretty sure on this!

 

[Pumpkin the robot]

I dont find it uncomfortable to ride on the drops for periods of 10 minutes at a time, (when I was younger I rode a lot of TTs and was always on the drops or aero bars, so maybe part of it is muscle memory) I just find it hard to generate the same power as being on the hoods, but thinking about it, it is harder to put out explosive power when the body is tucked up. I will have to find a happy medium I think.
I do need to get stretching though, its another of my plans for this year. I have always had tight hamstrings but they are probably the tightest they have ever been at the moment.
Thanks for the replies, it is all food for thought.

 

[GrasB]

Both that and muscularly it is more difficult to pull something open from an acute angle (when you can only apply force in a certain direction anyway). Finding an easy to picture example is alluding me right now, but I am pretty sure on this!

However my maximal power over 5 min comes from a 90-100 degree torso to (virtual) seat tube angle. This actually means I can generate more power in a Cavendish-esque sprinting position than than in the 'climbers' out of the saddle position as my hips are far to open (being about 125-130 degrees)

 

[jay clock]

Being on the drops is not in itself a reason to go faster, other than due to improved aerodynamics. If you are much less comfy you will produce less power and this will offset the aero benefits.

I would have a bike fit (google Retul) as it helped me a lot. Small changes helped a lot in particular. Also, tribars would be worth a look too

 

[e-rider]

The reason you put out less on the drops [and everyone has touched on it] from the hoods or indeed from higher to lower positioning on a TT bike is physiologically simple, the smaller the angle [call it hip if you like] between torso and thighs, the more the diaphragm is compressed which of course restricts the lungs to fully inflate. This is why those of us in the TT world are always trying to find the best compromise between power output and CdA [cycling aerodynamics]. Test the theory by bending in a chair at different angles and taking deep breaths.

just tried it and you are right - amazing!