Repainting and doing up a frame

[Holdsworth]

When I bought my early nineties Holdsworth Criterium racer it was in quite worn condition, it had been well-used and as such the paintwork had seen better days and the rust was starting to show through. I have now had the bike for around 4 1/2 months and I think that frame is in need for a respray sometime in the near future.

First things first, I admit to you all that I am a total noob when it comes to anything to do with DIY or mechanics so I am probably not the most competent person to be attempting this sort of work. I have no idea what work is required to respray apart from stripping, priming and painting so I will need an awful lot of help to get through this when it comes to doing it.
So can anyone point me in the direction of a full tutorial for the job or give me some sound advice and tips?

Second question, there are a load of decals that adorn the frame that are in a bad way and not really worth keeping, the badge on the headtube seems to be the only one that is in reasonable condition. Would it be worth trying to save or source replicas or would it not make a blind bit of difference and should I stop being so worried about image?

Thirdly, the various components that are attached are nearly all original and some such as the QR, the pedals and brake assemblies are beginning to show their age, is it time to replace them entirely and treat the bike to some new bits? The brakes don't really work as well as they should and the spring probably needs replacing anyway, plus the chrome has become worn and is flaking off quite a bit. The saddle also could do with be replaced, it is a San Marco Rolls saddle that is original to the bike and has a inch long tear on one side and the leather has a tendency to get soaked through in rain and make my arse wet. I suppose that is a characteristic of a leather saddle that hasn't been looked after and treated well.

Finally, what kind of cost would I be looking at for a respray and replacing the bits highlighted above? A ballpark figure would be helpful to give me time to gather the funds together.

Thanks,

Tom.

 

[Fab Foodie]

Hi Tom
I'm a fan of 531 Holdsworth bikes (I have a really tired 50s something vintage which I had re-sprayed in the early 80s) so I'd say it's worth having done properly if the bike fits you well and rides nicely.

'Resprays' start from basic powder coats (durable and cheap) which can be done in many spray shops to a complete 'original' re-enamel with decals and all. A reasonably goo re-enamel will cost from about £100 with powder coating less. Costs will vary depending on extras like finish type, lug-lining etc.

Bob Jackson's site gives a good ide whats available price-wise: See box on left.
http://www.bobjackso...uk/resprays.php

Componant wise my aim would be to re-use what's good and works and replace the tired bits. This can be where the expense lies however. Cycle-componentry has moved-on a bit since the early nineties. The number of gears, cassettes vs freewheels. 8 speed is still available at a reasonable price. If you need to replace wheels then consider 9 speed and you m,ay need to get the rear stays spread for a wider hub. New cables, bottom-bracket etc etc. means the cost can rise rapidly unless you aim to replace with the old bits (which may not be the sensible option).

having said all that, if it seems expensive, look at the price of a reasonable steel framed bike. Something like a Genesis equilibrium of lesser tubing will cost around £900. You could have a better framed bike that's more unique for nearly half that and it'll last for another 20 years.

An alternative is convert it to a fixie!

Give us a bit more info on what you have to work with!


I have a 531 touring-frame project in the garage awaiting a similar fate!

 

[Gerry Attrick]

I agree with Fab Foodie. You have a good quality frame there and it is well worth getting a professional job done. I have refinished a couple of frames myself, but it is very messy, time consuming, expensive and you end up with an OK finish at best. Nowadays, I just entrust them to the pros.

 

[accountantpete]

I've never had much success with re-sprays - IMHO you need the proper equipment and expertise to do the job properly.

You could try Longstaffs in Newcastle or Brian Rourke in Stoke (price list here ) or check out a local powder coating service.

Google Holdsworth Cycles - there's a link to a company in Cumbria that does the decals (There's some on ebay - but these are stick on decals).

TBH it sounds as though virtually everything needs replacing - is the bike worth it?

 

[TheDoctor]

Having sprayed a frame myself in the past, I'd offer the following tips and advice.
Don't bother.
Get it powder-coated - it'll look great and last forever.

As far as the rest goes - a new set of brakes will transform it. Even Sora brakes work well, and they're £25 the pair. A new saddle and pedals will hardly break the bank.
Put a few photos up, tell us what's worn, what you like and what you want to change, and we can go from there.

 

[Holdsworth]

Thanks for all your advice so far guys, really appreciated.

I will post a few pictures up tomorrow as requested to give to an idea of the condition, beware though it aint in the best nic and I can hear it all now "scrap it, scrap it!!!"

I do like the bike, it rides really nicely and it would a shame to get rid of it and I can't see myself being able to afford a new road bike any time soon. If I were to have some money I'd probably spend it on a decent tourer instead and keep the Holdsworth as a racing/leisure bike just because I like it so much.

The only bits that I can see need replacing are the saddle, pedals, brakes, the quick release and maybe the brake levers. Everything else works alright atm, the gears work fine with seven speeds but the indexing isn't setup right so I am friction shifting which suits me fine. Is it still possible to get hold of a seven speed hub these days or should I upgrade the gearing while I'm at it?
If so this might start to get expensive and the cost might become prohibitive quite quickly.

The link to Bob Jackson Cycles is good, their prices seems quite fair and it looks like they do a great job of enamel coating. With the collect and delivery service they offer the cost is around £95 which isn't too bad. And with all the extras the cost may rise to around £250 overall. Is this too much to spend on doing up a bike and if so should I keep it ridable for as long as possible and save up my pennies for a decent used bike?

 

[TheDoctor]

Quick release on the wheels? They're dirt cheap - like a fiver or so the pair.
7 speed cassettes are still around, as are 7 speed freewheels. Not sure which you're likely to have. If you're fine with friction, then there's no need for a new rear mech. You may well need a new chain and chainring(s), but if the chainset itself is OK and has changeable rings, then new rings won't break the bank. A cheap chainset isn't exactly pricey either.
Pedals cost...well, whatever you're prepared to pay, really. Flat ones from about a tenner, SPDs from £20 or so.
Seriously - that's a decent 531 frame there, and well worth keeping running. Buying that standard of frame new, you're looking at £375 at least.

 

[Holdsworth]

Well that's good know, looking at those options you suggested has bought the cost down a little bit which is good. I think that I could be able to keep the current pedals if I clean them up a bit, they are of the flat type, just simple metal with two sides that have different looking grips. They are perfectly OK apart from a little light rust in small patches.
I seriously didn't think that the frame wasn't something of quality, just another bog standard mass-produced one from when Holdsworth were turning out bikes by the bucket load.

As I said I will post some picture tomorrow of the frame and the main components to see what you think of it, and maybe you could tell what could do with replacing.

 

[Holdsworth]

Well I have uploaded some pictures as promised to show the general condition of the bike, be warned it isn't in the best nic so don't laugh

See what you think and tell me what you suggest would need replacing, apart from the entire bike!!!.

EDIT: Sorry the image size is a bit on the large side, I will upload some lower resolution ones shortly.

EDIT 2.0: New resized images attached.



Front view of the bike




view of the saddle with the tear visible




rear mech





bad bit of rust and flaked paintwork and the base of the seat tube




front quick release





rear brake assembly





pedals and front mech

 

[accountantpete]

I'd firstly give that rusty bit on the chain stays/bottom of the seat tube a good clean with a wire brush and try and assess how deeply the rust has penetrated.

Other than that I'd be tempted to sandpaper out any other rust patches, pop a bit of Kurust on top and then simply paint over with red paint.

Personally the rear wheel hub looks to be on its way out (the spokes have started eating into the flange) and cassette look shot to me - with the latter it may also mean a new chain and possibly chainrings.

After that I'd take the chain off the chainrings and give the cranks a spin to see if the BB is still running freely- also check for any play in the cranks.

But sort out the top bit first because if the rust has gone too deep the frame is scrap - (it shouldn't have done as the 531 tubing was quite tough and thick in those days).

 

[Holdsworth]

Well I have just gone out with a wire brush to check the rusted patch at the base of the seat tube, and luckily it seems that rust is only superficial. Very little rubbing reveals the shiny metal tubing underneath so I think that no permanent damage has been done at that it can be salvaged. Other that one patch there are not many other places on the frame that has rust on them, it only the QR where the rust has attacked it badly.

The comment about the cassette strikes me as a bit odd, they were replaced by the local bike shop when I got the bike as they needed to go because the teeth had worn out. He fitted seven new cogs and a new chain but the front chainring is as it was. I know I should've replaced it but I didn't think about that at the time.

What paint would you recommend for patch up the areas where it has worn through to the undercoat? I assume it has to be a specialised metal paint.

 

[Zoiders]

Just be aware that rust can penetrate into the lugs, the braze doze not alway fill the joint 100 percent and they rot from the inside out.

Rourke and Longstaffs both use the same sub contractor (in Liverpool IIRC) for resprays so their work and prices will be similar, very good quality yet pricey.

As it looks like you have fairly plain lugged frame with no real detail work required the cheap option would to be a local industrial bloke that can do a simple shot blast and powder coat for you, it's thick, plain and robust. A lot of places will do a shot blast and a single colour coat very cheaply, about the £50 mark, maybe a bit more. You might have to chase some of the coat back out of the threads your self though but thats no biggy, easy to do with and old BB cup and a steel bottle cage bolt.

 

[Holdsworth]

Just be aware that rust can penetrate into the lugs, the braze doze not alway fill the joint 100 percent and they rot from the inside out.

I certainly hope that hasn't happened in my case, is there anyway to check to see if that has happened at all?

I can't see to find a company in Crewe that offers metal stripping and/or powder coating so I may have to just end up having to take it to Rourke Cycles in Burslem as it is the closest place and is convenient for me to get to. I guess I would be looking at the "Stove Enamel" jobbie which is a the head of their price list and costs £95, would that include the necessary stripping and de-rusting of the frame prior to coating?

Also AccountantPete's comments on the condition of the rear wheel point towards me having to replace that in the near future, CRC sell a Shimano R500 Clincher rear wheel for £62.99 which looks like it might be a good choice. What are your thoughts on this and should I aim to get a whole new set instead of buying separate?


Shimano R500

 

[accountantpete]

The comment about the cassette strikes me as a bit odd, they were replaced by the local bike shop when I got the bike as they needed to go because the teeth had worn out. He fitted seven new cogs and a new chain but the front chainring is as it was. I know I should've replaced it but I didn't think about that at the time.

What paint would you recommend for patch up the areas where it has worn through to the undercoat? I assume it has to be a specialised metal paint.

Actually on the normal sized photo the cassette looks ok - it was the supersized pic that made it look badly worn.

If you go down the patching up route I'd just use some Hammerite (mix some red/white to get the approx colour) as this doesn't strictly need Kurust and will give a tough finish.

If you google powder coating Crewe there are a couple of motorbike links which may be able to give you a quote.

 

[Rob3rt]

I'd strip it and get it painted in whatever colour/combo you wish, then take it from there. Once it looks very nice, you may start to feel that the parts you would have put on it today dont do the frame justice once its looking all new and then wish you have bought better/different components. I would wait until you have the frame in your hands, in a good to go state before proceeding on buying parts etc.