Red light jumping

[domtyler]

There's possibly a certain instinctive resistance to yet another weakening of the idea of one taking ones turn at things, rather than rushing through ahead of others too...

Ah, no doubt you are British through and through John! Can't beat a good queue eh?

 

[John the Monkey]

Ah, no doubt you are British through and through John! Can't beat a good queue eh?

Well, one doesn't like to impose...

 

[confused]

I think the idea of allowing cyclists to treat a red light as a give-way sign is an issue worth exploring.

If there is a set of signals at which it seems appropriate for a cyclist to treat 'red' as a give-way sign - then what about motorbikers? surely they could also treat it is a give-way instead equally safely.... and then its only a small jump from there to cars, buses and lorries....

Looked at the other way around then the problem seems to be that some road users seem to consider certain sets of 'green=go, red=stop' traffic lights to be inappropriate and better served by some kind of 'go / give-way' system (like a roundabout - or maybe just require cleverer timing on the lights) - hopefully leading to more respect of traffic signals where they are installed.

I've tried the same argument with speed camera's with little success though - ie. all those people complaining about being caught speeding shouldn't be complaining about the cameras enforcing the limit - but instead arguing that they think the limit is too low wherever it was they were caught (or - and I've never met anyone yet in this catagory - admitting that they were doing something 'wrong' and deserved the fine)

 

[bonj2]

The barrier is the pedestrian issue. Red lights are often there to force road users to stop so that peds can cross.

There's normally enough room for a bike to cross a crossing at the same time as a ped is crossing. I can always anticipate peds crossing and know when they're going to be crossing my path and know whether to go in front of them or behind them (usually behind). Not always the case with a car.

 

[marinyork]

If there is a set of signals at which it seems appropriate for a cyclist to treat 'red' as a give-way sign - then what about motorbikers? surely they could also treat it is a give-way instead equally safely.... and then its only a small jump from there to cars, buses and lorries....
Looked at the other way around then the problem seems to be that some road users seem to consider certain sets of 'green=go, red=stop' traffic lights to be inappropriate and better served by some kind of 'go / give-way' system (like a roundabout - or maybe just require cleverer timing on the lights) - hopefully leading to more respect of traffic signals where they are installed.

I've tried the same argument with speed camera's with little success though - ie. all those people complaining about being caught speeding shouldn't be complaining about the cameras enforcing the limit - but instead arguing that they think the limit is too low wherever it was they were caught (or - and I've never met anyone yet in this catagory - admitting that they were doing something 'wrong' and deserved the fine)

No I think you're very wrong on that one I'm afraid, at an extremely conservative estimate the typical lorry would have 500 times the kinetic energy I do and even a car 20 times. In reality they would likely be doing higher speeds than if I jumped a red and hit someone. The laws of physics simply do not agree with your assertion about it being a small step up in any set of circumstances.

 

[John the Monkey]

Is there any merit in the argument that if we want to be treated as vehicles on the road whilst cycling (rather than an impediment to the progress of "proper" road users) it might be good not to have these sort of exemptions reinforcing our difference?

 

[bonj2]

That's you bonj. Look at it from the point of view of the timid pedestrian.

It's not the timid ones that you have to worry about. 'Timid' is probably one of the best qualities if you're a pedestrian. The timid ones hang back till they're sure it's *completely* safe to cross, and that's a good thing for both their own safety and that of any cyclists that may be approaching. The dozy ones that just don't look or the ones that just militantly stride out because they've "got the right to" are the ones you have to watch out for.

 

[Fab Foodie]

IMO, it's clear and simple for road-users to understand red lights mean stop. No if's, no buts, no special rules for other road users (Emergency services accepted). Why introduce different rules for different vehicles? It certainly wont stop motorists bitching, their problem is not cyclists, it's themselves. However, we would get even more flak from Pedestrians at junctions.

I agree that if we want to be treated as legitimate road users we should act like ones. It's pretty simple not to RLJ. Take the high ground and set a good example.

 

[domtyler]

Is there any merit in the argument that if we want to be treated as vehicles on the road whilst cycling (rather than an impediment to the progress of "proper" road users) it might be good not to have these sort of exemptions reinforcing our difference?

Vive la Différence!

 

[domtyler]

If there is a set of signals at which it seems appropriate for a cyclist to treat 'red' as a give-way sign - then what about motorbikers? surely they could also treat it is a give-way instead equally safely.... and then its only a small jump from there to cars, buses and lorries....

Looked at the other way around then the problem seems to be that some road users seem to consider certain sets of 'green=go, red=stop' traffic lights to be inappropriate and better served by some kind of 'go / give-way' system (like a roundabout - or maybe just require cleverer timing on the lights) - hopefully leading to more respect of traffic signals where they are installed.

I've tried the same argument with speed camera's with little success though - ie. all those people complaining about being caught speeding shouldn't be complaining about the cameras enforcing the limit - but instead arguing that they think the limit is too low wherever it was they were caught (or - and I've never met anyone yet in this catagory - admitting that they were doing something 'wrong' and deserved the fine)

Good point, and it can only be a matter of time before we're all shooting up heroin too eh?

 

[Fab Foodie]

(or - and I've never met anyone yet in this catagory - admitting that they were doing something 'wrong' and deserved the fine)

Well, you have now...

 

[marinyork]

FWIW (not much) I don't think the law should be changed, I think wrt to cycling activities the law and punishments already distinguishes that activities done whilst cycling are not as bad as motoring ones and that's the way it should be. It's misapplication that's the problem. Like when I lived in York and the police would spend quite a bit of time dishing out tickets to cyclists cycling in the joke pedestrian zone but spent a mere hour once a year dishing out tickets for those who were not supposed to drive down a particular street (notoriously ignored) or even completely ignoring those motorists who drove down the so called pedestrian streets in York or a famous no right turn, or a famous 20mph stretch of road or an infamous junction for car RLJing that had had accidents because of it. That's the problem, muppets like them.

It's the people who go on about RLJing and pavement cycling being as bad as with cars that gets my wick or that it happens more often with cyclists (a load of nonsense). Same crime, much, much less serious and it is naughty to pretend otherwise. I get a bit tired of the exaggeration of RLJing that goes on outside of london too. These people seem blind, I rarely see cycle RLJing but see motor RLJing to various extents at every set of traffic lights ever constructed. Some of them being extremely blatent ooh there's nothing coming I'll edge forward and drive through it examples that people here pretend never happen can happen too.

 

[John the Monkey]

Vive la Différence!

"Get on the cyclepath, Frenchy!"

 

[Rhythm Thief]

I've tried the same argument with speed camera's with little success though - ie. all those people complaining about being caught speeding shouldn't be complaining about the cameras enforcing the limit - but instead arguing that they think the limit is too low wherever it was they were caught (or - and I've never met anyone yet in this catagory - admitting that they were doing something 'wrong' and deserved the fine)

Slightly OT, but regarding speed cameras, I've always found that obeying the limit (as opposed to the cameras) works for me. 20 years behind the wheel, 10 as a professional driver and ... no points!

 

[Rhythm Thief]

Is there any merit in the argument that if we want to be treated as vehicles on the road whilst cycling (rather than an impediment to the progress of "proper" road users) it might be good not to have these sort of exemptions reinforcing our difference?

Yes, I think so. That's why I obey red lights.