Red light jumping cyclist prosecuted for manslaughter

[PaulB]

This is catnip to the Daily Heil.

 

[PK99]

This is catnip to the Daily Heil.

Does that comment count as Godwin's Law?

 

[glasgowcyclist]

The driving offence would be Causing death by careless or dangerous driving. The max penalty for those is now the same as for manslaughter ..IIRC.

That charge is not available for cyclists.

It was a rhetorical question, I know the offences and penalties for motorists.

My suggestion is that we don't have these 'causing death by careless/dangerous' offences but prosecute every such road death as manslaughter (culpable homicide in Scotland).

 

[mjr]

Does that comment count as Godwin's Law?

Not unless a previous commenter is known to work for it.

 

[mjr]

It was a rhetorical question, I know the offences and penalties for motorists.

My suggestion is that we don't have these 'causing death by careless/dangerous' offences but prosecute every such road death as manslaughter (culpable homicide in Scotland).

I believe the driving offences were introduced because juries were too reluctant to convict fellow motorists of manslaughter.

 

[Pale Rider]

Even pushing a knife into someone's abdomen doesn't seem to be enough intent these days, as long as the accused sticks with the "but I didn't mean to kill him, officer" line.

To prove murder, the prosecution must prove two things.

The defendant intended at least serious bodily harm, and the victim is dead.

What they absolutely do not have to prove is any intent to kill.

In that respect, proving attempted murder is much harder, because the prosecution does has to prove intent to kill.

Thus the defendant can say 'I only intended to cause really serious harm when I stuck the knife in, as evidenced by the fact the victim is still with us."

Which will still get him a decent stretch.

But if he said the same about a dead victim, he would be convicting himself of murder.

 

[weareHKR]

Now we have a forum full of legal experts...
The totally irresponsible cyclist was travelling at about 15mph, overtaking other cyclists as he approached the pedestrian crossing which had been on red for over five seconds, knocked over someone causing head injuries which he later died from!
Then picked up his bike and cycled away!
No thought or consideration for anyone else apart from himself, hope he gets everything he deserves!

 

[mjr]

No thought or consideration for anyone else apart from himself, hope he gets everything he deserves!

I also hope he gets what he deserves, whatever that may be, but I am not a mindreader or a time traveller and I doubt you are either, so I won't join the tabloid lynch mob rhetoric.

 

[weareHKR]

I am not a mindreader or a time traveller and I doubt you are either, so I won't join the tabloid lynch mob rhetoric.

I'm not quite with you there @mjr

 

[mjr]

I'm not quite with you there @mjr

Your claim about his thoughts and consoderation are unsubstantiated and tabloidy.

 

[I like Skol]

Your claim about his thoughts and consoderation are unsubstantiated and tabloidy.

???

He cycled recklessly, resulting in a collision. He left the scene without showing any interest for the well being of the victim. What do you suppose were his primary thoughts and consideration?

If some of the people that act/cycle/drive recklessly actually thought they might get more than a slapped wrist for doing so, even when the outcome is catastrophic as in this case, then the rest of us might not have to worry for our safety everytime we venture onto the roads.

 

[roubaixtuesday]

???

He cycled recklessly, resulting in a collision. He left the scene without showing any interest for the well being of the victim. What do you suppose were his primary thoughts and consideration?

If some of the people that act/cycle/drive recklessly actually thought they might get more than a slapped wrist for doing so, even when the outcome is catastrophic as in this case, then the rest of us might not have to worry for our safety everytime we venture onto the roads.

Much as I sympathise with the views, waiting for all the evidence and a verdict might be sensible. We haven't seen the evidence directly and I don't think we know what his defence is yet?

 

[PK99]

Now we have a forum full of legal experts...
The totally irresponsible cyclist was travelling at about 15mph, overtaking other cyclists as he approached the pedestrian crossing which had been on red for over five seconds, knocked over someone causing head injuries which he later died from!
Then picked up his bike and cycled away!
No thought or consideration for anyone else apart from himself, hope he gets everything he deserves!

From this concurrent thread>https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/h...light-on-your-bike.272802/page-2#post-6337108
it would seem that the only thing that differentiates this guy from many cyclists observed by cycle chat members, is that he actually hit someone.

 

[T.M.H.N.E.T]

Good

 

[mjr]

He cycled recklessly, resulting in a collision. He left the scene without showing any interest for the well being of the victim. What do you suppose were his primary thoughts and consideration?

Why is any supposition necessary? Wait a bit and we may well find out. Why the great hurry to go off at half-cock? It looks bad. Maybe it is bad. But why prejudge?

If some of the people that act/cycle/drive recklessly actually thought they might get more than a slapped wrist for doing so, even when the outcome is catastrophic as in this case, then the rest of us might not have to worry for our safety everytime we venture onto the roads.

That's rather supposing that deterrents work and people behave completely rationally, which is a far bigger topic and I don't share your confidence in general (along the lines of https://freakonomics.com/2013/05/31/is-driving-drunk-rational/ ) nor in particular, because even if there is only a tiny minority thinking they won't get a serious penalty, then we still should worry about our safety and watch out for them.