Ready For a Shock?!?!?

[chris42]

Vinokourov fired by Astana team.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/other_sports/cycling/default.stm

Bet you didn't expect that!

 

[Keith Oates]

Not really suprised and must congratulate Astana on their actions. Perhaps McQuaid saying Astana should be allowed in the Vuelta was not such a bad call!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[chris42]

Not really suprised and must congratulate Astana on their actions. Perhaps McQuaid saying Astana should be allowed in the Vuelta was not such a bad call!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Astana have even removed the cheat from their website already!

 

[Keith Oates]

Actions speak louder than words!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[gbyers]

I'm slightly confused. How does an individual arrange to have blood transfusions during a major tour without his team knowing? Or does this doping work if it's done weeks in advance?

Do we believe Astana are clean or is it the case that the team are dirty?

 

[Steve Austin]

I'm finding it very hard to believe Vino was giving himself blood transfusions. I believe if we are to see an end to drug use in the peleton, there has to be more than suspending riders. Suspending a team from one of the Major races would be a worthwhile punishment.
It could make teams take an active role in trying to run clean teams.

 

[alecstilleyedye]

maybe if vino lifts the lid on exactly how much the team astana management knew, then it could blow the idea that the teams can pretend to know nothing out of the water.

the blood transfusion probably came as a result of the performance loss caused by the injusry incurred early in the tour. if that's the case, i cannot see how this was done without the team's knowledge and compliance.

the other two who were done for tesosterone could have self-administered without the team's knowledge or consent.

 

[chris42]

Yes tested on the Thursday before the tour started and poss a couple of other times in the first week. Then positive on the TT and rubish the next day then does another Landis.
All while staying in a 'team' hotel and traveling on a 'team' bus?
Probably sharing a room in each hotel which is surrounded by press and no one saw him leaving in the middle of the night and the team didn't know?!?!? !

 

[chris42]

maybe if vino lifts the lid on exactly how much the team astana management knew, then it could blow the idea that the teams can pretend to know nothing out of the water.

the blood transfusion probably came as a result of the performance loss caused by the injusry incurred early in the tour. if that's the case, i cannot see how this was done without the team's knowledge and compliance.

the other two who were done for tesosterone could have self-administered without the team's knowledge or consent.

Agree with you about the Testo but even so the team transports everything for the riders, all the teams need to do is check riders bags.
If the police had found the testo patches or whatever on the bus then it would be the team and the rider arrested.
Teams need to take responsibility as much as riders.
The riders are doing it out of pressure to win/perfor as well as greed and fame.

 

[gavintc]

For a long time, I have been convinced that the heart of this problem is the team. If the team management take a strong anti-doping policy, the problem is reduced. But, I argue, when the rewards to both team and sponsor are so large, it is not surprising that they will turn a blind eye/provide tacit support. A culture change is the only way forward. Personally, I am unconvinced that the problem is the 'older' generation. I think the problem is a team management one. I also think the UCI were rather quick to offer a place to Astana in Vuelta before the downstream affects of the Tour had played out.

 

[alecstilleyedye]

i actually think the sea change will come once sponsors realise that a "win at any cost for us" mentality could result in awful, scandalous publicity (as rabobank can tell you). corporate pressure will come in the form of "don't drag us into a doping scandal or else…". i, personally, think that if sponsors had a get-out clause in the sponsorship contract if a team's rider fails a b-sample test then the pressure would really be on the teams to put out a clean squad. and how could the team argue against that clause if they are keen to be clean (to coin a phrase)?

 

[Blonde]

For a long time, I have been convinced that the heart of this problem is the team. If the team management take a strong anti-doping policy, the problem is reduced. But, I argue, when the rewards to both team and sponsor are so large, it is not surprising that they will turn a blind eye/provide tacit support.

I agree with this. I think that many teams who so the whole sacking of naughty boys thing, are merely 'flag waving', to keep the media happy though. Not convinced that they will actually do anything about it in the majority of cases or they'd be left with no team! I think it's the relatively few cases that draw huge media attention and force them to act on these particular individual cases, when in reality there must be loads of others in the team who escape attention still continue to dope.

 

[monnet]

i actually think the sea change will come once sponsors realise that a "win at any cost for us" mentality could result in awful, scandalous publicity (as rabobank can tell you). corporate pressure will come in the form of "don't drag us into a doping scandal or else…". i, personally, think that if sponsors had a get-out clause in the sponsorship contract if a team's rider fails a b-sample test then the pressure would really be on the teams to put out a clean squad. and how could the team argue against that clause if they are keen to be clean (to coin a phrase)?

Not sure if I, or the PR men, would agree with this. THere are some companies who don't want to be tainted by scandal but I've read in the business pages that Rabobank are more than happy with their Tour. Rasmussen generated loads of publicity as the yellow jersey, then generated even more with his 'where's Wally' routine and then Rabo get positive publicity by kicking him out. Wall to wall coverage for two weeks.

Think about it like this: you want a mobile phone, do you reject T-mobile because they've been tainted in a doping scandal or do you reject them because they poor network coverage. I would go with the latter. And if I were to move to Germany maybe I'd use their service as in an unfamiliar country they would be a familiar brand.

Ultimately it depends how the company wish themselves to be portrayed but the riders are just mobile billboards to the sponsors. Thus, anytime the team is mentioned it is the sponsor's name that is mentioned and every time a rider is photographed his sponsor is usually more visible than his face. As the old adage goes, 'there's no such thing as bad publicity.'

 

[Tetedelacourse]

^ Tell that to Phonak!

 

[Dayvo]

^ Tell that to Phonak!

I would, but they can't hear me! Dodgy hearing aids, methinks!