[Rant] Buying used cars [/Rant]

[Bonefish Blues]

My gift to you:

https://www.breakerlink.com/?code_n...9TS6EN_LVz-nj76UMAdroSthAEkNuoFAaAhoPEALw_wcB

Actually I do have another one that might be useful - PM me when you're next coming over to N Oxon

 

[Cavalol]

The list of 'issues' is actually pretty good for a car of that price. If you can get another test on it at a fair price,. you really cannot go far wrong.

 

[MarkF]

I've done a 125 mile test drive in my recently arrived £800 2005 Honda FR-V and cannot fault it, oh wait mo', I can, the silver finish on a dash drawer and near the air vents has worn away & I've only got one key. Oh, and the rear valance is broken where it clips onto the rear head rest pillars, I did that.The 122k on the the petrol 6 speed chain driven 2L engine (The only one I'd buy) means it might be only half way through it's life and it can seat 6 in comfort with a load of luggage space. I've also noted that with the rear seats folded I could get 3 bikes in there and still have 3 seats up front and I've a tow bar anyway..........the seats slide all over the place and I've lost count of the number of pull/slide out cubby holes and drawers. Ok, it's a blah blob, but towards the upper end of blah blob lookers. I've got the front middle seat down, head rest thrown in the back, this provides an arm rest, table x 2 (upper & lower) and a pull out drawer, I've run out of things to use...

This is a perfect example of the UK being the cheapest place to buy a car, in Euroland it'd be 3x the cost, but with it's umpteen exterior scratches and a couple of dents it'd never make a respectable dealers sales yard here. I own it and for the cost of 3 or 4 months rental of a wanky 1.0L ecoboost Focus.

Early days but It's looking like another Ebay/cider unseen purchase winner.

 

[screenman]

Thanks but tbh it's not as tidy as it looks.. off the top of my head:

Mechanical / practical issues that need sorting:
- Front discs and pads excessively worn (hoping to do these myself at some point before the MOT, facilities permitting)
- Rear discs and pads tatty but I won't replace them unless I have to
- Steering wheel self-centring poor (only noticed after buying; apparently a common fault and hopefully a cheap fix in lubing the EPS torque sensor, otherwise I'll live with it)
- P/side window doesn't retract all the way (suspect due to fouling from a loose piece of sound-deadening, thanks to a youtube video)
- Tappets noisy (might have a crack at these myseif if it's not too difficult)
- Rear ARB bushes will need doing at some point (MOT advisory last year)
- Windscreen chipped (might try and get this done on my insurance, depending on excess)

Other faults:
- Non-structural surface rust on passenger sill, rear arch and boot lid
- Varous dings / scratches on the bodywork and bumpers
- Back end has had a light shunt (I suspect reversed into something) - no structural damage but it's holed the boot floor (due to the bumper mounting tabs getting peeled back)
- Interior a bit worn and could do with a clean; oddly pedal rubbers and seat bolster look good but seat squab is worn and no marking left on gear knob!
- Headlights are cloudy
- Water ingress into boot
- Will need a cambelt in another year or two / 25k miles

Good points:
- Seems honest enough
- Four nearly new, seemingly decent tyres
- No whine from gearbox input bearing (common problem on these apparently)
- Gear selection is pretty decent
- Suspension all seems in good nick
- Exhaust looks like it's got a lot of life left in it
- All electrics work
- Engine starts on the button, idles nicely etc
- Generally drives fairly nicely, steering notwithstanding


End of the day I'm not going to get sucked into spending a load of money on it as a clutch or gearbox issue will pretty much write it off, so I'll have to treat it as a typical banger / an expendable lottery.

Its condition and faults are somewhat of a stark contrast to the lower mileage and better-looked-after car it replaces, but then I can't expect a lot for what I paid really, can I? Hopefully I'll get a year or two out of it, in which time maybe I'll source something better (circumstances permitting).

Ambivalent about its purchase at the moment tbh (it's the first time I've knowingly and purposely bought a doomed shed); will have to see how it pans out over the next few months. At least I'm mobile now..


In other news though it seems I continue to be cursed; yesterday afternoon I gave the car's details to my insurance company, stating that I was going to view and wished to get the information on record so I could call them and confirm if the sale went ahead. All went well, agent asked when I was viewing the car so I told him later today / early evening. Rang them to confirm cover after buying at 7pm to get a recorded message stating their opening hours were reduced due to Covid and to call back in the morning - leaving me with no insurance

I've just checked the policy documents they sent over yesterday (due to unconnected policy changes) and the email states their lines close at 8pm... funny they shut me out at 7pm, then.... so, looks like another irate call to these absolute muppets today along with another email to their complaints department

Managed at least to get the car taxed yesterday (12 months) so it must have been registered as insured (probably still in the seller's name) so hopefully my careful drive back won't have tripped any bloody ANPR cameras..

As if that wasn't enough I've just checked the tax details today and despite the cover being stated as taken out as of the first of this month, the DVLA site states that the tax will be due again on the 1st of April which is only eight bloody months. To make this worse I've been trying to contact the DVLA over another matter by both email and phone and they're currently taking no incoming communications; meaning I can't get this rectified and it's going to hang over my head until fap knowns when I actually get the opportunity to argue it out with one of them.. something I'm not looking forward to as in the past I've usually found them unhelpful to the point of being obstructive.

I've been criticised on here in the past for being pessimistic - when I'm seemingly constantly subjected to crap like this, is it any wonder? Is anyone actually capable of doing their job competently?

Do not get that screen repaired on your insurance, first it is fraud, second your premiums will go up, possible for the next 5 years, despite what everyone says it is logged as a claim..

 

[wafter]

Remember it is the car you are buying not the person or their story.

True, however often I find you can learn as much about the car from the seller (knowingly or otherwise) as you can by inspecting it directly..

Take the guy I bought my latest from; middle-aged, evidently not short of cash, had stayed on top of the service history and gone to the trouble of getting a pre-sale checkup by a local garage. Story checked out regarding why he was selling, ad was full of pictures (specifically showing many of the car's faults), faults were also listed in the (sizeable) description and he was happy to tell me all the low-ball offers he'd had prior to my viewing; my offer being the same as the highest he'd previously rejected.

I'm not saying the wheels won't potentially fall off in the next ten minutes, but if they do I'm pretty certain than the seller wasn't aware of this fact when the car was sold.

Compare that to ads with no / poor pics, a pitifully scant description or one filled with amateurish and massively optimistic sales schpeil, info that doesn't tally up... a seller whose answer to every question on the phone is "yeah m8 it's wikkid"...

Sadly, the best way to buy a second hand vehicle these days is to assume the seller is an absolute illegitimate who is out to completely rip you off. If you end up with something decent, you've done well. FWIW, it's relatively easy to catch people out by asking a few questions before viewing, then asking again: it's amazing how stories can change. Also the govt tax/MOT checker now shows when the last change of V5 was, it's amazing how many people have seemingly owned a vehicle for 'ages' yet the web site shows it as 2 weeks.

Very recently using that DVLA site and the most basic of internet searching discovered the motorbike I was chasing that'd 'belonged to a relative for years' had actually had 3 owners in about 4 weeks. It might still have been a viable prospect, but when people start lying from the off it's time to walk away.

Absolutely - such is life sadly. I always use the online resources available to me but didn't think about asking the question many times.. tbh I find people actively out to deceive are often fairly thick and transparant, so most are easy enough to discount before wasting your time viewing.

Sounds like you dodged a bullet with that bike!

My gift to you:

https://www.breakerlink.com/?code_n...9TS6EN_LVz-nj76UMAdroSthAEkNuoFAaAhoPEALw_wcB

Actually I do have another one that might be useful - PM me when you're next coming over to N Oxon

Thanks!

Am back home now as it happens, although won't be around too long this time.. I'm intrigued by your cryptic message though. Don't have a shed load of Civic brake components going begging do you?

The list of 'issues' is actually pretty good for a car of that price. If you can get another test on it at a fair price,. you really cannot go far wrong.

Thanks.. there are a few more than that (and doubtless some I've not twigged yet) but hopefully it'll last me a while.

I've done a 125 mile test drive in my recently arrived £800 2005 Honda FR-V and cannot fault it, oh wait mo', I can, the silver finish on a dash drawer and near the air vents has worn away & I've only got one key. Oh, and the rear valance is broken where it clips onto the rear head rest pillars, I did that.The 122k on the the petrol 6 speed chain driven 2L engine (The only one I'd buy) means it might be only half way through it's life and it can seat 6 in comfort with a load of luggage space. I've also noted that with the rear seats folded I could get 3 bikes in there and still have 3 seats up front and I've a tow bar anyway..........the seats slide all over the place and I've lost count of the number of pull/slide out cubby holes and drawers. Ok, it's a blah blob, but towards the upper end of blah blob lookers. I've got the front middle seat down, head rest thrown in the back, this provides an arm rest, table x 2 (upper & lower) and a pull out drawer, I've run out of things to use...

This is a perfect example of the UK being the cheapest place to buy a car, in Euroland it'd be 3x the cost, but with it's umpteen exterior scratches and a couple of dents it'd never make a respectable dealers sales yard here. I own it and for the cost of 3 or 4 months rental of a wanky 1.0L ecoboost Focus.

Early days but It's looking like another Ebay/cider unseen purchase winner.

View attachment 535319

View attachment 535321

Nice - looks like a score, although not something I'd personally fancy running on cost grounds..

Do not get that screen repaired on your insurance, first it is fraud, second your premiums will go up, possible for the next 5 years, despite what everyone says it is logged as a claim..

lol at the fraud comment - after the way my insurance have treated me I'd have the shirts of their backs and leave them naked and freezing in the gutter if I could

That said I appreciate the point re. premiums, plus I have a £60 excess. The screen's got a lot of small chips in but these don't affect the car's functionality or MOT status so I'm not fussed about sorting it for now. If / when it becomes an MOT failure I may consider using the insurance, depending on the cost... if only to leave this set of shysters out of pocket.


So, in a fit of desire to do something of worth in yesterday's otherwise baron wasteland of productivity, I started washing the car. Fading light called time on this, but it began again in earnest this morning and continued through the afternoon..

So far it's been washed, clayed, a few specific spots of paint transfer and light scratching buffed out with T-cut. The whole exterior has been waxed, the glass cleaned and waxed inside and out (except the screen), the wheels cleaned as best as possible with Muc-off degreaser and waxed, and the thick coating of skin and grease removed from the steering wheel and other interior controls ().

I still need to go over the rest of of the interior - vacuuming the carpets and cleaning all the plastics. I also re-set a split in the front bumper by drenching it in boiling water and pushing it back together (one side of the split was sat on top of the other, if you see what I mean).

Perhaps the most satisfying task today was polishing the outside of the polycarb lights to remove the cloudy yellow UV-damage. I appreciate the lights have a protective coating from the factory and that given time they'll degrade again, although this will take a while and I hope the wax applied might slow this at least a little.

Before and after:

The front end certainly looks a lot nicer now; can't comment on the light output though as I've not driven it in the dark yet, although doing similar on the Mrs' Yaris made a fair difference.


I did another journey in the car today. The brakes work OK but are definitely on their way out; giving a good shimmy through the wheel under heavy-ish breaking. The steering's also pretty crap too; generally OK at low speeds or when applying a lot of lock, but at high speeds in a straight line it feels noticeably notchy and it's tiring having to make little corrections.. especially when your shoulders are knackered from lots of polishing

I tried the "grease" fix on the steering and somewhat unsurprisingly it didn't work; not really a shock since it feels notchy at rest with the engine off (so unlikely to be an assistance issue, as the grease is supposed to address). It did cross my mind that it could be a worn UJ in the steering column (or maybe just wear in the rack), although I'm not about to replace either to test this theory.

In other news the seatbelt is a swine to get to as the A-pillar sits well behind the driver's seat and I've noticed a bit of a whine in neutral from the box when it's warm, but it's not enormously obvious and tbh I expect something else will probably kill the car before the box becomes a problem. I also found that the driver's side seat doesn't ping foward on its runners to give access to the rear seat, but this shouldn't be a problem as I rarely carry a lot of people.

On the road the car rides nicely, corners pretty well with minimal roll and while not fast is quick enough to be fun, revs freely and feels enthusiastic when you give it some stick. It's really nice to have something that's actually fun to chuck about a bit The inside feels nice and spacious and isn't a bad place to be; nicer now the glass is done but should be better still once I've finished cleaning it..

I'd planned to take a few tarty pics but didn't get time; maybe I'll do some on the way back tomorrow if the opportunity presents itself. It still looks like a shed, but at least one that's a bit more looked after now

 

[screenman]

That says it all, happy to commit fraud which costs us all, there you are complaining about dodgy people.

 

[wafter]

I've belonged to some great marque-specific car forums in the past, although sadly this isn't something apparently afforded by Honda ownership.. so if anyone's bothered a bit of an update on this latest of my follies.

Rounding off a pretty hectic / productive weekend I couldn't resist taking a peek at the brakes so having identified the flattest bit of local road I got my scally on; chocking the wheels with some of the bricks scattered over the verge by the mad rock lady opposite to stop people parking on the grass (before anyone feels the need there's plenty of room to get past and I was only here for half an hour in any case) ..

This was an enlightening if somewhat disappointing escapade. Getting home had revealed both front wheels to be pretty warm with a fine coating of dust despite having only covered about 50 miles since cleaning, so the brakes are obviously binding

Removing the wheels revealed I have Lucas calipers (a bit of info I needed to order the correct pads) and thankfully after a little persuasion all of the fixings that require removal to do the discs and pads came out without too much fuss. The driver's side was a mess; little lubrication, unevenly worn pads seized to the carriers, massive wear on the disc (EDIT: actually 0.5mm below the wear limit) and worst of all some muppet has cross-threaded one of the hub-to-carrier bolts, leaving the head proud of where it should be by maybe 3-4mm

I'm going to try reforming the threads with an appropriately sized high-tensile bolt run through the hole from the back once I've sourced one that'll fit, although this might be a non-starter (literally) as the threads are a bit grotty and I'm not sure how much good thread remains. Failing that it'll be a used replacement carrier.. @Bonefish Blues -I did submit a request for one on the site you linked to, thanks; they're all pretty pricey though so far unfortunately.

The D/side caliper, carrier and pads came off, had a bit of scrub (pad ends were dressed with a file to remove the corrosion that was causing them to stick in the carrier) and it all went back together with a little lubrication. I'm hoping the seizing was the result of the corrosion on the pads, but we'll see. The sliders in the carrier are OK and I wasn't able to test the caliper or hoses as I don't currently have a tool to wind the piston in. The gaitors on the pistons looked in good nick but I didn't think to peer inside - finger's crossed!

The passenger side was better; no show-stoppers, much more even / minimal wear on the pads (but similar on the disc) and actually some remnants of copper grease on some of the fixings! The pads were still a little sticky in the carriers so again these were tidied up before being refitted.

I've spent most of the day looking at discs and pads; a complete front set running from anything between £35 (from ECP and probably made from melted down coke cans in an Indian back garden) to £200+ for OEM stuff. Currently thinking Mintex (c. £50-60) or Brembo (c. £75)... I used to rate / trust the former when I was a bit more involved in the trade but I hear they were bought out some years ago so fap knows what they're like now. Both apparently conform to EU "Regulation 90" governing performance relative to OEM items, which the really cheap ones don't... for what it's worth.

I don't want crap but am more minded to go for cheaper stuff as I don't know how long the car will last before the gearbox eats itself.

In other news it rained today so I ran outside like a kid at christmas to witness the beading on the freshly-waxed paint

 

[Gunk]

It’ll end being a £2000 car 😂

I don’t think you’re quite cut out for bangernomics @wafter

 

[wafter]

It’ll end being a £2000 car 😂

I don’t think you’re quite cut out for bangernomics @wafter

That certainly won't happen

If / when the gearbox goes it'll be game over (no chance I'm paying for that to be sorted), and so far I don't think £60ish to do the brakes is the end of the world. Might need rears for the MOT at a similar cost, other than that I don't foresee anything else requiring immediate outlay.

Not sure what to do about servicing it; tempted to have a stab at the basics myself, although it seems a shame to let the otherwise up to date FSH finally lapse!

This is my first stab at running a shed so it's all new - at least I didn't buy that bloody Jazz

 

[Profpointy]

That certainly won't happen

If / when the gearbox goes it'll be game over (no chance I'm paying for that to be sorted), and so far I don't think £60ish to do the brakes is the end of the world. Might need rears for the MOT at a similar cost, other than that I don't foresee anything else requiring immediate outlay.

Not sure what to do about servicing it; tempted to have a stab at the basics myself, although it seems a shame to let the otherwise up to date FSH finally lapse!

This is my first stab at running a shed so it's all new - at least I didn't buy that bloody Jazz

Even if / when the gearbox fails, I always take the view that "money spent" is the only thing that matters. I could spend £x for a new gearbox (assuming car is broadly ok) or spend £y on another car which will likely have an old gearbox.
Even if £x > £y it still might be better value

I bought my Saab 10+ years ago for £2500. Three years ago I spend nearly that on an engine rebuild, which was by then more than the car was worth.
It's still running fine - luxury cheap motoring taking costs over 10 years and 100,000 miles. The first three owners only got 70,000 miles and likely lost £30k in depreciation between them

 

[wafter]

Even if / when the gearbox fails, I always take the view that "money spent" is the only thing that matters. I could spend £x for a new gearbox (assuming car is broadly ok) or spend £y on another car which will likely have an old gearbox.
Even if £x > £y it still might be better value

I bought my Saab 10+ years ago for £2500. Three years ago I spend nearly that on an engine rebuild, which was by then more than the car was worth.
It's still running fine - luxury cheap motoring taking costs over 10 years and 100,000 miles. The first three owners only got 70,000 miles and likely lost £30k in depreciation between them

Gah - don't tell me that as that mentality would see me fixing the car this replaced!

I used to be able to indulge that luxury; buy something highish mileage with a good shell and just keep replacing anything that went wrong. Quite therapeautic to get to the stage where you've pretty much replaced everything, know the car inside out and be pretty comfortable that you've got all the major bases covered.

Sadly that won't happen with this one as it's not tidy enough to warrant spending the money on IMO. If the bodywork was in better nick I'd maybe have considered it..

 

[Bonefish Blues]

Do you know Autodoc? Often quite a lot cheaper like-for-like, albeit a bit of a wait from Germany.

 

[wafter]

Do you know Autodoc? Often quite a lot cheaper like-for-like, albeit a bit of a wait from Germany.

Thanks - wasn't aware of them but had a quick shufti. There's loads of choice on there at the budget end, but tbh I'd not know where to start. The only brand I can compare with the UK sources I've been looking at is Brembo; which are actually more expensive.

Think I'm going to go with the hopefully-a-bit-better-than-awful Mintex offerings..

 

[Drago]

The Volvo forums are dire. The UK one is so argumentative that even Regulator would break out in a cold sweat if he visited, and the US one is very, very civilised but its all business, technical talk with no joshing or discussion about anything else.

So I don't bother.

Way back when when Mrs D had a CRV I found the US Honda owners forum quite a nice mix of technical discussion and chat about other stuff.

Even if / when the gearbox fails, I always take the view that "money spent" is the only thing that matters. I could spend £x for a new gearbox (assuming car is broadly ok) or spend £y on another car which will likely have an old gearbox.
Even if £x > £y it still might be better value

I bought my Saab 10+ years ago for £2500. Three years ago I spend nearly that on an engine rebuild, which was by then more than the car was worth.
It's still running fine - luxury cheap motoring taking costs over 10 years and 100,000 miles. The first three owners only got 70,000 miles and likely lost £30k in depreciation between them

Absolutely! I never understand when people say "ooh, I've sold the car because it needed 600 sheets spending for the M.O.T.", and then saddle themselves with either spending thousands to buy something decent, or £££'s a month in repayments. It is almost always cheaper to fix the damn thing.

 

[Profpointy]

Gah - don't tell me that as that mentality would see me fixing the car this replaced!

I used to be able to indulge that luxury; buy something highish mileage with a good shell and just keep replacing anything that went wrong. Quite therapeautic to get to the stage where you've pretty much replaced everything, know the car inside out and be pretty comfortable that you've got all the major bases covered.

Sadly that won't happen with this one as it's not tidy enough to warrant spending the money on IMO. If the bodywork was in better nick I'd maybe have considered it..

Your last point is key. The base vehicle does need to be good enough to be worth spending on for major repairs. "worth it" in this sense doesn't mean resale cash value greater than the repair cost but "good enough" to keep going for a while linger. I have in the past fixed a couple of cars I should probably have scrapped, but still, was satisfying to rebuild an engine, and. not that expensive (an A-series in a metro) only my own time