Question for Clubs

[mjr]

I would have to disagree with @rogerzilla regarding “club run” and “beginners.”

My club runs the following groups Intro (12-13) Progression (13-14), Club (15-16), Inters (14-17 and potentially 5-6000+ feet) Sporting (20+) and Racing (23+). Averages in brackets. [...] Should someone repeatedly turn out for a ride which is beyond them a quiet word will be had.

And me and many other riders who can not reliably predict when we can sustain 13mph sees that and feels shut out.

Also, this says there are six groups, but elsewhere you refer to the "third, slowest group". Huh?

We feel this caters for everyone.

Maybe you should try asking people other than "we" how it looks?

Secondly that no one minds if someone who is truly trying slows the pace down.

That's rather at odds with the threat to take such people to one side for "a quiet word".

 

[PaulSB]

I think it is good that you prefer to not leave male riders behind but who judges how 'experienced' those male riders are? If I told someone that I was happy to fix my own problem or ride back alone then I would expect my wishes to be complied with. I would feel pretty annoyed if somebody said that I was not capable of looking after myself and refused to go on.

Similarly, I think it is good to reassure women that they will not be left alone in the middle of nowhere but if a woman insists that she is okay to be left then it seems a bit patronising to tell her that she is wrong!

I fully understand what you’re saying Colin. Perhaps my phrasing was poor. What I mean is no one is ever dropped. To me this means abandoning someone who can’t keep the pace, is tired etc. As a club we don’t think this should happen but obviously if a rider simply wants to do their own thing that’s different.

I feel our ethos is about making sure everyone gets home safely if they for some reason aren’t able to stay with the group.

There is another aspect to this, which opens up a whole different discussion, but it’s my experience not everyone on a group ride will know where they are or how to get home!!! If this is someone who is struggling it seems to me the responsible action is to get them home safely.

 

[ColinJ]

I was thinking just now that some people may say that they are okay because they are too embarrassed to ask for help or feel that they are being a nuisance by asking others to slow down for them. So, yes, I think it would be good to make sure that they felt able to do so!

 

[PaulSB]

I was thinking just now that some people may say that they are okay because they are too embarrassed to ask for help or feel that they are being a nuisance by asking others to slow down for them. So, yes, I think it would be good to make sure that they felt able to do so!

This often sums up the situation. People who would like to try another level worry they will be embarrassed, slow the group, spoil the ride etc. It often stops them trying to progress. Then a struggling rider doesn’t want the group to slow or wait etc, when the truth is he/she is hurting like hell and wants to get home.

It’s so hard to get across the message “we’ve all been there and we understand.”

It’s about inclusion. I’ve ridden home with struggling riders on several occasions and I’ve yet to find someone who was upset by this. Usually they’re grateful and pleased to have had the support.

Hell I’ve sat on enough wheels hiding behind the “big guy.”

 

[mcshroom]

The idea of being able to keep up can put people off riding with clubs all together. I know it has me for many years, and I'm only just thinking about trying out some of the local club rides. Partly that's because a friend of mine is a member of Darlington Road Club and rides with the 'novices' ride. I've been out with them a few times when I'm over, and I must admit I enjoy it

 

[PaulSB]

I always feel it’s helpful to discuss a post in its entirety rather than individual sentences taken out of context but I’ll try to respond clearly.

And me and many other riders who can not reliably predict when we can sustain 13mph sees that and feels shut out.

I can understand this. My feeling would be it is impossible for any club of any type (Cycling, football, Bridge) to accommodate all abilities. A club should make clear what it can offer members and potential members and people can make a choice as to whether or not it’s the right club for them. In my area there are clubs which only offer TT and Racing - I can’t do either so I know these are not the right clubs for me.

Locally I know there are clubs and groups which do cater for those who like to ride differently to mine. People join them.

I’ve always been a strong believer if one thinks something needs changing then one should get involved and help make that change. If you feel your local clubs don’t offer rides for which you perceive a demand may I suggest approaching the Club Secretary and ask how you could get involved with providing the ride.

Also, this says there are six groups, but elsewhere you refer to the "third, slowest group". Huh?

Unfortunately you’ve mixed up the weekend rides with the Tuesday training rides. The training ride has three groups of which the third is the slowest. As I explained during training rides members start in any group they wish. The idea is for people to challenge themselves in a fast group safe in the knowledge they can drop back to a slower one if needed. I do this myself most weeks - 12 miles on my limit before dropping back to another group for the final 15. The last, third group doesn’t drop anyone.

Maybe you should try asking people other than "we" how it looks?

I’m not sure who you want asked? Non members? Our rides constantly evolve to accommodate what members are asking for.

That's rather at odds with the threat to take such people to one side for "a quiet word".

It’s difficult to understand why you suggest there is a “threat.” I feel I’m clear all that happens is a rider would be quietly and privately asked if they feel the Ride is the right one for them. If that’s a threat I’m a little taken aback.

 

[mjr]

I always feel it’s helpful to discuss a post in its entirety rather than individual sentences taken out of context but I’ll try to respond clearly.

If anyone wants the context, they can click the little up arrow at the top of the quote. I feel it's helpful to trim quotes to what's actually being discussed.

My feeling would be it is impossible for any club of any type (Cycling, football, Bridge) to accommodate all abilities.

That seems to contradict the earlier claim:

We feel this caters for everyone.

I think a club can accommodate all abilities but it's very rare among cycling clubs.

I’ve always been a strong believer if one thinks something needs changing then one should get involved and help make that change. If you feel your local clubs don’t offer rides for which you perceive a demand may I suggest approaching the Club Secretary and ask how you could get involved with providing the ride.

I am involved with what's basically a transport and touring club, but it is irritating when local clubs aimed at faster sports-style riders claim to cater for everyone when they don't and all sorts of isms are rife. It surely doesn't help anyone to have riders turn up to clubs and get dropped or have people grousing about being cold or held up or be taken aside for a quiet word to discourage them from turning up to that type of ride again.

I feel our group is far more open about the existence of other groups with other types of ride than they are about us (I just checked the website of the oldest local sports cycling club and there's still no link to us) - is this because they want to get at least one annual membership fee out of newbies whereas we don't use that financial model?

Unfortunately you’ve mixed up the weekend rides with the Tuesday training rides.

OK. Which rides have six groups then? Is this made clearer on the group's website?

I’m not sure who you want asked? Non members? Our rides constantly evolve to accommodate what members are asking for.

Asking non-members seems a good idea if you really want to cater for everyone rather than only cater for all members. Also, asking people who joined for a year and then quit (or even asking new members who stop before their paid year's up) would seem like a good idea for inclusion and renewals and even just keeping a good feeling about the club... but actually, I'm just as happy if you're honest and say that you feel it's impossible to cater for everyone, as at least then there's no false hope.

IIt’s difficult to understand why you suggest there is a “threat.” I feel I’m clear all that happens is a rider would be quietly and privately asked if they feel the Ride is the right one for them. If that’s a threat I’m a little taken aback.

It all depends how it's actually done, but being taken to one side for a quiet word is the sort of euphemism used to cover things like shouting at people that their cycling is "no good to man nor beast" which is what one club leader did to a small group of us on a so-called "newcomers" ride. Most of us never rode with that club again, as far as I know. I can see it's great not to do it noisily as some sort of announcement with everyone's full attention, but why does it need to be done in private rather than in the open so the subject can call for help if they feel they need it?

Have you never suffered being taken to one side for that sort of quiet word?