Price of lights

[Berlinbybike]

I was really asking if anyone knew how manufacturers justify the price of lights - what complexity and expense goes into them that I don't understand. I'm not interested in how anyone justifies the cost of these to themselves. Judging by some of the sensitive replies I'd suggest there's a lot of that going on after the fact.

Perhaps I am unfair in thinking there's something of the emperor's clothes about the market for bike lights, but I do.

 

[tyred]

Perhaps I am unfair in thinking there's something of the emperor's clothes about the market for bike lights, but I do.

You're most probably right but at the end of the day, if a manufacturer asks £x for their product and people buy it, then there is little incentive for them to ask less.

 

[gavintc]

\Perhaps I am unfair in thinking there's something of the emperor's clothes about the market for bike lights, but I do.

Perhaps that is your opinion. There are 3 pages of posts explaining that lights are not the 'emperor' clothes'. I suggest that you read some of the comments, but if you do actually read them, be prepared to open your mind - just a little.

 

[Coco]

I was really asking if anyone knew how manufacturers justify the price of lights - what complexity and expense goes into them that I don't understand. I'm not interested in how anyone justifies the cost of these to themselves. Judging by some of the sensitive replies I'd suggest there's a lot of that going on after the fact.

Perhaps I am unfair in thinking there's something of the emperor's clothes about the market for bike lights, but I do.

The price will be whatever the market will allow. Simple capitalism. Why sell something for £100 when people will buy at £200?

Edit: Oops cross posted with Tyred.

 

[buddha]

There are tooling and setup costs to consider. Moulds for plastic injection, dies for forging etc can be very expensive. And NC machining doesn't come cheap. So some of it comes down to 'economies of scale'. There are also other costs, including liability insurance etc.

However, in my experience, I don't think R&D costs for a bicycle light can be that high. The electronics is simple, thermal testing and the beam design can (mostly) be simulated with off the shelf software. And there's not much to it mechanically. I suppose the most expensive materials cost would be the batteries and then machining costs.

As others have said, I'd guess there is a pretty high markup on some of the 'high-end' lights ... looks like I'm in the wrong engineering sector then

edit: thinking about it, my cheapish HL-EL530 couldn't have cost more than a fiver to make, probably a lot less: Relatively large production rate, >95% plastic, simple electronics, cheap led, bog std AA batteries. Costs £50 from Wiggle.

 

[Hacienda71]

I think put simply the top end stuff is better but on a diminishing basis. A bit like bikes themselves you get a good carbon bike eg Planet X for a grand but the very best bikes will cost you five times that and more. The differences are minimal but for some the extra spend is worth it.

I must say that I do find some of the posts in responce to a newbies observation a little harsh, my view others I am sure will disagree. This is not P&L though.

 

[summerdays]

I guess maybe we are a little sensitive over it ... on one hand cyclists get criticised for either having no or very poor lights, and then if we do get lights especially expensive ones we leave ourselves open to the theft of them (even in my own shed I still remove my more expensive lights each time), and have to get them past the other person in the house... (we personally seem to get around that problem by buying them for each other... so my Hope light was my birthday present from him last year).

I do wonder sometimes how they can charge so little for some products though.

 

[Wobblers]

Perhaps I am unfair in thinking there's something of the emperor's clothes about the market for bike lights, but I do.

I don't think you're being unfair at all. In too many cases the design effort seems minimal, so I can't see any justification for the high prices due to R&D. I don't know enough to be able to comment about manufacturing costs - with small runs I imagine they'll be significant. Then again, Magicshine manages to produce a very good lamp, albeit low quality, for not very much at all.

In most cases, though, I find it difficult to see just where the money's paying for[1].

[1] Excuse the pun!!

 

[gavintc]

To me it is a no-brainer, if you can afford the initial cost. Some years ago, I was a competitive orienteer and did a number of night events through each winter season. At every night event, you would go through a pack or two of batteries. I knew then that it would have been cheaper to purchase a rechargeable (and brighter) system than to buy batteries every week, but could not afford the initial outlay. I have now become a cyclist (bad knees from running) and can see exactly the comparison. I can now afford the rechargeable system and know that this will pay for itself quite quickly compared to lots of throw away batteries. In addition, the lights are so much brighter and better so I feel safer cycling on unlit roads. My commute is 24 km each direction and this is roughly 12 km urban and 12 km rural.

In my opinion, the OP has not accepted the overall cost of running a cheap light for a considerable period of time each week (for me it is 10 hours per week) and has not accepted that cheap lights do not light the road. I acknowledge that quality lights are expensive and cannot define where the money goes. But to me, it is a worthwhile, cost saving purchase and safety based purchase - a far cry from the allegation of 'emperors clothes'.

 

[dellzeqq]

and guess which muppet went and brought a cheap reserve set of lights this morning before realising that the front one had a halogen bulb? Bummer!

 

[GrumpyGregry]

I reckon if you pose your question to the folks at AyUp they will tell you, in some detail.

 

[MontyVeda]

Regardless of whether a light cost £5, £50 or £500... all of them are subject to tool making, injection moulding and/or milling costs long before the product is ready for sale. A considerable financial investment is required in all cases.

with regards to "Why sell something for £100 when people will buy at £200?"... The reason some prices are so high is down to branding... higher price = exclusive brand. They could easily make a good profit by dropping the price down to £50 simply because more poeple can afford the product, this broadens their market but knocks a dent in their branding.

 

[ufkacbln]

Equally why buy a bike at £200 when you can buy a perfectly usable one at £50

It may be made of cheaper components, not finished as well etc, but is buying a £200 bike really a case of teh "Emperor's Clothes?

 

[CanucksTraveller]

^^ No. Of Course not, but again, I feel you might be at risk of missing the point. The question wasn't "why are better bike lights more expensive than than cheap ones". That's an easy one to answer...

The question was why so much more. We're not comparing £50 bikes with £200 bikes, we're comparing £5 lights with £300 lights. So I still think Mr Berlin still has a valid question, and thankfully people have started to explain some of the reasons, e.g. economies of scale.

I think it's a very valid thread, and to me, it's pretty interesting to find out, because I'd kind of wondered myself. I'd gone from those old Ever Ready things at a fiver a throw some years ago to £25 Cateyes these days, and I thought they were expensive. Let alone 2, 3, 4 hundred pounds for the spanky stuff.

 

[chriswoody]

I recently bought a set of electron Terra 2 lights for the front of my bike and was really impressed by the build quality and the light output. They also come with a li ion battery. There mostly aluminium with some plastic and have proved to be really robust and waterproof. So for me the outlay was justified.

One intresting point though, the mrp was £100, ( bike radar amongst others have quoted this) however I paid £79 and this seems a common price for this light. So instanly were seeing a 21% drop in price and this isn't because bike shops are being charitable, so what price are they buying them in at?