True, but it's a fluff point, as even those who think they pull up a bit, have been shown in studies not to actually do it once they start to approach threshold power and above. Making it an irrelevancy.
Power Meters
- Thread starter Zofo
- Start date
Page may contain affiliate links. Please see terms for details.
True, but it's a fluff point, as even those who think they pull up a bit, have been shown in studies not to actually do it once they start to approach threshold power and above. Making it an irrelevancy.
Fasta Asloth
Well-Known Member
- Location
- Kingston
Excellent, so now we have at least moved the topic on from, "stop just giving opinions and give us some peer-reviewed scientific studies" to, ok there may be some peer reviewed studies out there, but hey I aint gonna pay to find out what they conclude, just incase it confirms everything I already suspect, or perhaps contradicts everything I know.... You can of course just email and ask for them to send a copy of the full paper, they may oblige....
Rob3rt
Man or Moose!
- Location
- Manchester
Or you find someone with access to a vast array of academic journals and ask them to email you the pdf...
Fasta Asloth
Well-Known Member
- Location
- Kingston
Or you find someone with access to a vast array of academic journals and ask them to email you the pdf...
that too! Used to have such access, unfortunately not anymore.....
Rob3rt
Man or Moose!
- Location
- Manchester
On that link there are a lot of papers on the subject if you keep clicking next, I don't have time to read them, nor am I that interested, hah.
I referenced about 20 papers earlier, that by and large conclude that it matters not how you mash, most of which I have actually read. You came up with one that says who knows what, that you have not read.
Let's put a little perspective into this.
Edited to say: Look there are people in this debate who have done the reading and who have a solid grasp on the consensus (and it is a consensus despite a few dissenting voices) that power delivery is not dependant on pedalling technique, beyond simple biomechanical constraints. This subject is not new to us. The fact that they keep asking for evidence is not because they want you to find it for them, it's because they know that there is not very much evidence out there.
Coming to this subject from nothing, having been blinded by the Garmin sales spin, and then reflexively grabbing whatever Google can find, is not going to convince those of us who have been doing the reading for years.
Last edited:
Rob3rt
Man or Moose!
- Location
- Manchester
The reality is, most people probably can't put out a competitive amount of power regardless of how they pedal. Regardless of technique, most of your power will be generated on the down stroke, this is dictated by simple mechanics, so if you can't push down hard enough to be competitive, some marginal gain (assuming there is one, which may not be the case, dodging the debate) from "optimising" some metric using a pair of Garmin Vector pedals will not make you competitive.
As for pulling up, well... it happens. But it is probably only going to happen to any marked degree under certain circumstances and if you consciously do it so unless a study replicates such circumstances the results will be skewed. Eg. put me on a watt bike and do some sort of ramp test, I would hazard a guess that it doesn't happen, however send me up a short steep hill (especially where speed and momentum are low) and your findings would be very different.
As for pulling up, well... it happens. But it is probably only going to happen to any marked degree under certain circumstances and if you consciously do it so unless a study replicates such circumstances the results will be skewed. Eg. put me on a watt bike and do some sort of ramp test, I would hazard a guess that it doesn't happen, however send me up a short steep hill (especially where speed and momentum are low) and your findings would be very different.
Last edited:
Fasta Asloth
Well-Known Member
- Location
- Kingston
Pretty sure one of the points in their discussion, from the experimental conditions as tested, was that pulling up was actually detrimental to overall efficiency (when compared to the other techniques), not the other way around??
"By encouraging riders to maximize the evenness of the crank torque distribution, one encourages an active pull during the upstroke, which decreased grossefficiency in our subjects"
Fasta Asloth
Well-Known Member
- Location
- Kingston
I referenced about 20 papers earlier, that by and large conclude that it matters not how you mash, most of which I have actually read. You came up with one that says who knows what, that you have not read.
Let's put a little perspective into this.
Edited to say: Look there are people in this debate who have done the reading and who have a solid grasp on the consensus (and it is a consensus despite a few dissenting voices) that power delivery is not dependant on pedalling technique, beyond simple biomechanical constraints. This subject is not new to us. The fact that they keep asking for evidence is not because they want you to find it for them, it's because they know that there is not very much evidence out there.
Coming to this subject from nothing, having been blinded by the Garmin sales spin, and then reflexively grabbing whatever Google can find, is not going to convince those of us who have been doing the reading for years.
Fair enough Vam, thats why it was a "FWIW" (people can add it to the pile and make of it what they wish) I'm only starting to look into this as was intrigued by the topic in the post. Haven't formed an opinion either way yet as only just starting to look through all the data evidence, both for and against, useful to get a heads up on what people have found out paper-wise...
My ''pretty much'' was aimed at the 'one less thing to worry about' part.
My edit was not aimed so much at you as the Vector fan-boy trio.
And before someone slates me for being anti-Vector - I am sure it will, eventually, be a good power meter in it's own right. Right now it's untested by time, expensive in comparison to alternatives and trying to sell on gimmickry.
michaelcycle
Senior Member
- Location
- London
Sorry, that was my mistake. It seems by getting subjects to emphasis pulling up it led to a decrease not an increase as you say (I suspect because it is contrary to their adapted style meaning they have to force themselves to do it leading to less efficiency overall.)
However, that does seem to add weight to the suggestion that your preferred style of pedalling may be the way to go although whether if you learned a different style over time and became adapted to it you could be more efficient was not answered.
Last edited:
Fasta Asloth
Well-Known Member
- Location
- Kingston
However, that does seem to add weight to the suggestion that your preferred style of pedalling may be the way to go although whether if you learned a different style over time and became adapted to it you could be more efficient was not answered.[/quote]
very true and they noted that in their discussion, and that would be quite a challenging experiment to plan and execute I guess.....
very true and they noted that in their discussion, and that would be quite a challenging experiment to plan and execute I guess.....
michaelcycle
Senior Member
- Location
- London
Well, first you find a set of twins, raise them in laboratory...
I have to say that in the 6 weeks or so that I have been cycling the learning curve has been steep to say the least. It seems what I have been regularly told or the conventional wisdom may be a little over egged in its worth.
Pedrosanchezo
Veteran
- Location
- Perthshire, scotland
Wattbike are very much pro pedalling efficiency through smoothing out the pedal stroke. The power pattern or "peanut" does not only grow, it also smooths out - as i am sure you can see.
Rob3rt
Man or Moose!
- Location
- Manchester
But who is to say whether changes in the shape of the peanut actually correlate to improved performance on the road and how they correlate? Wattbike are bound to be pro-peanut!
