Police, primary and politness

[CopperCyclist]

I've actually been in both situations:

Called to a house and asked to remove shoes. No cultural reasons, just a houseproud owner with a plush white carpet! I politely declined, explaining my reasoning that I may at any point have to run out of their house to an emergency call, and the two minutes it would take me to put my boots back on would hold me up. I was also privately thinking of safety reasons, like VikeonaBike but decided not to mention this - its got a strange ring to it to suggest I may be in danger in their household. I offered to give the householder a lift to the station and ensure either I would give them a lift back or arrange transport as an alternative - they politely declined, and suggested we speak in their conservatory instead, which we did.

I've also been conducting a search under Section 17 PACE for an offender for an assault (for the unitiated this normally suggests an unplanned, spur of the moment search which applies here). Family members present had a prayer room, and tried to refuse us entry to this room unless we removed our shoes. I initially politely declined, and eventually had to calmly and assertively decline, and walked into the room to find the chap hiding behind a (religious?) wall hanging. To be fair, he was shoeless. The family did make a complaint, but it didn't go anywhere.

Ooh - just remembered ONCE when I have. There was a special day at a Sikh Temple - forgive my ignorance for forgetting what the day was. They invited the police to join them. I and a sergeant went for community relations purposes. For this day I wasn't on a car, and wouldn't be called to anything else. They requested removal of shoes, and we both did so. They also treated us extremely well, don't think I've ever had so much food!

 

[classic33]

riding 4 abreast?

Surely 3 X 2 abreast... just not exactly in line astern.

No wonder car drivers shout at us if cyclists don't even understand it...

Some interesting posts BTW

3 X 2 equals 6, there's seven police bikes in the picture.

 

[bottombracket]

3 X 2 equals 6, there's seven police bikes in the picture.

oops...

Yep, I missed the wheelsucker at the back

 

[Red Light]

3 X 2 equals 6, there's seven police bikes in the picture.

I count nine and all wearing helmets. Clearly taken this pedestrian helmets thing to heart.

 

[bottombracket]

Are those pedestrian helmets the new-fangled aero helmets?

 

[Shut Up Legs]

If the rider was in the Primary and holding up traffic then that would be wrong, like a driver doing 20mph in a 60 for no reason,also if they say why they were in the Primary after an accident surely they leave themselves open to the questioning as to whether they should have been riding like that for those conditions. It becomes one persons descision against the others as to if it was safe,

With respect, I don't completely agree with that, because there are situations where assuming Primary lane position is justified even in busy traffic. For example, I always assume Primary position approaching and navigating through a roundabout, because I don't feel safe using roundabouts in any other manner. I also assume Primary when going through any pinch-point, e.g. sections of road where a single lane is bounded by kerb on the left and traffic island on the right.

 

[classic33]

I count nine and all wearing helmets. Clearly taken this pedestrian helmets thing to heart.

Just done a recount & I can still only count seven bikes. There not carrying passengers by any chance?

Since when did bicycles have to wear helmets anyway?

 

[Red Light]

Just done a recount & I can still only count seven bikes. There not carrying passengers by any chance?

Since when did bicycles have to wear helmets anyway?

You've missed the two coppers standing on the street in the background wearing helmets of the pointy variety. OK, yes, its police not bikes.

 

[Angelfishsolo]

With respect, I don't completely agree with that, because there are situations where assuming Primary lane position is justified even in busy traffic. For example, I always assume Primary position approaching and navigating through a roundabout, because I don't feel safe using roundabouts in any other manner. I also assume Primary when going through any pinch-point, e.g. sections of road where a single lane is bounded by kerb on the left and traffic island on the right.

Unless primary is for your safety there is no need to hold it any longer than necessary.

 

[apollo179]

I've actually been in both situations:

Called to a house and asked to remove shoes. No cultural reasons, just a houseproud owner with a plush white carpet! I politely declined, explaining my reasoning that I may at any point have to run out of their house to an emergency call, and the two minutes it would take me to put my boots back on would hold me up. I was also privately thinking of safety reasons, like VikeonaBike but decided not to mention this - its got a strange ring to it to suggest I may be in danger in their household. I offered to give the householder a lift to the station and ensure either I would give them a lift back or arrange transport as an alternative - they politely declined, and suggested we speak in their conservatory instead, which we did.

I've also been conducting a search under Section 17 PACE for an offender for an assault (for the unitiated this normally suggests an unplanned, spur of the moment search which applies here). Family members present had a prayer room, and tried to refuse us entry to this room unless we removed our shoes. I initially politely declined, and eventually had to calmly and assertively decline, and walked into the room to find the chap hiding behind a (religious?) wall hanging. To be fair, he was shoeless. The family did make a complaint, but it didn't go anywhere.

Ooh - just remembered ONCE when I have. There was a special day at a Sikh Temple - forgive my ignorance for forgetting what the day was. They invited the police to join them. I and a sergeant went for community relations purposes. For this day I wasn't on a car, and wouldn't be called to anything else. They requested removal of shoes, and we both did so. They also treated us extremely well, don't think I've ever had so much food!

The white carpet guy is understandable.
The muslim case illustrates the sensitivity - for example what about entering a mosque - however i can see that as the representative agents of the state the police must have the right to enter any premises in appropriate circumstances and removing shoes isnt appropriate and shoudnt be taken offence at. I wonder what the police do in muslim countries.

 

[Angelfishsolo]

The white carpet guy is understandable.
The muslim case illustrates the sensitivity - for example what about entering a mosque - however i can see that as the representative agents of the state the police must have the right to enter any premises in appropriate circumstances and removing shoes isnt appropriate and shoudnt be taken offence at. I wonder what the police do in muslim countries.

This reminds me a little of the right of sanctuary in a church. Great idea in principle but in reality it is never going to work. If a search warrant is being carried out it is laughable to expect the officers to remove their shoes.

 

[apollo179]

This reminds me a little of the right of sanctuary in a church. Great idea in principle but in reality it is never going to work. If a search warrant is being carried out it is laughable to expect the officers to remove their shoes.

Yes agreed - in alot of ways i have more sympathy with the white carpet bloke.

 

[PedAntics]

I contacted the police yesterday in regards to a chap, front passenger, lunging out of a passing car as it passed me. The incident was dealt with swiftly. It was a positive experience with one of the officers updating me having visited the vehicle owner. It turned out it was a new driver who admitted the incident alongwith harasing other road users. He's now on record for 12 mths, he is responsible being the vehicle owner, hopefully this'll be a lesson learned. The officers were polite, friendly and very helpful. I understand this is not everyones experience, numerous -ve comments in thread, however credit where it's due.

I did ask the two officers if they'd heard of primary and secondary riding positions and drew a blank expression from both. I did my bit and explained the rational and cited examples. Both agreed it made sense, will they remember - who knows?

For the record neither officer was asked to remove his shoes when entering my home. A bit cheeky wiping their feet on the way out though!

 

[apollo179]

I contacted the police yesterday in regards to a chap, front passenger, lunging out of a passing car as it passed me. The incident was dealt with swiftly. It was a positive experience with one of the officers updating me having visited the vehicle owner. It turned out it was a new driver who admitted the incident alongwith harasing other road users. He's now on record for 12 mths, he is responsible being the vehicle owner, hopefully this'll be a lesson learned. The officers were polite, friendly and very helpful. I understand this is not everyones experience, numerous -ve comments in thread, however credit where it's due.

I did ask the two officers if they'd heard of primary and secondary riding positions and drew a blank expression from both. I did my bit and explained the rational and cited examples. Both agreed it made sense, will they remember - who knows?

For the record neither officer was asked to remove his shoes when entering my home. A bit cheeky wiping their feet on the way out though!

Thats good to hear.
+ for the police.

 

[benb]

I contacted the police yesterday in regards to a chap, front passenger, lunging out of a passing car as it passed me. The incident was dealt with swiftly. It was a positive experience with one of the officers updating me having visited the vehicle owner. It turned out it was a new driver who admitted the incident alongwith harasing other road users. He's now on record for 12 mths, he is responsible being the vehicle owner, hopefully this'll be a lesson learned. The officers were polite, friendly and very helpful. I understand this is not everyones experience, numerous -ve comments in thread, however credit where it's due.

I did ask the two officers if they'd heard of primary and secondary riding positions and drew a blank expression from both. I did my bit and explained the rational and cited examples. Both agreed it made sense, will they remember - who knows?

For the record neither officer was asked to remove his shoes when entering my home. A bit cheeky wiping their feet on the way out though!

Good stuff. I sometimes think we concentrate on the negatives too often, so thanks for relaying a positive story.