Plastic food containers and microplastic contamination

[wafter]

This thread inspired by this article on microwaving plastic containers.

The crux is that storing wet foods / liquids in placcy containers causes an amount of degradation of the container material, which contaminates the contents with "microplastics", which are then of course ingested when the contents is consumed. Finally this contamination is (mostly) excreted back into the water system; with seemingly every acquatic organism affected to some degree according to a study I read some time ago

It seems that unsurprisingly subjecting this whole process to elevated temperature (as found when microwaving) greatly accelerates this process.

There's been limited research on the health implications of this unknowing consumption of plastic, however unsurprisingly existing data suggest it's not good.

Throughout life I've come to accept that anything not immediately found in nature is probably going to be bad for us; as is sadly bourne out by the raft of man-made substances and products once hailed as revolutionary for health or convenience, but subsequently proven to be extremely damaging to us and / or the environment..

As such I've tried to move away from food-adjacent plastics - the household no longer does "non-stick" (PTFE / "Teflon") cookware (choosing enamelled or "ceramic" instead), while I now have a stainless & bamboo lunchbox instead of the plastic one I was using. I've never been much into microwaving; especially in plastic; thankfully. I've already got rid of a lot of manky, no-name plastic food containers and hope to replace them with glass or stainless if I can find something suitable.

On the down-side, since I largely rely on reduced supermarket meats I still buy a fair amount of stuff in single-use plastics (when I get back to Oxford I hope to start using the local butcher more). My beloved gin-companion tonic water also comes in plastic (PET) bottles, which I think are recyclable (assuming this actually happens rather than them quiely being dumped in landfill ). However, one wonders home much of the container material might have leeched into the contents in the weeks they're sat in storage.

I continue to use my placcy Camelbak bottles regularly - both on the bike and when I'm out and about or in the office... these are apparently polypropylene (which is considered to be one of the less-bad plastics) and I always replace their contents if it's sat for any longer than overnight to get rid of any contaminents that might have diffused into it overnight. I'd be very happy to replace these with stainless, although I've not yet found anything that looks as suitable for riding; while I wonder how nicely said bottles would interface with the cages on the bike...

So, while plastics certainly have many legitimate applications, it seems that any directly relating to food are best avoided. I'm interested to hear if anyone else is concerned about this microscopic plastic pollution; and if so how you're seeking to avoid or minimise it

 

[fossyant]

Wouldn't worry too much - I'd like it if super markets would reduce packaging though. We use plastic butty boxes all the time - I cook more than is needed, so single portions are divvied out for freezing and re-heating for lunch - saves lots of money and buying 'lunch' in a single use container. I must ingest a load of crap from cars whilst cycling, so shan't worry.

 

[Fab Foodie]

I think this simply falls into the 'anything you can do to use less plastic is a very good thing' category....
Tonic is available in cans!

 

[bitsandbobs]

I think this simply falls into the 'anything you can do to use less plastic is a very good thing' category....
Tonic is available in cans!

Which will be lined with some plastics material or other.

 

[numbnuts]

I'm nearly 72.......

 

[Once a Wheeler]

Thank you for raising this, wafter. Just on a personal hunch, I always default to oven glass or glazed ceramics to heat things in the microwave — I think it was the indelible staining on microwave-safe plastic containers that made me a bit dubious.

I have often wondered what might be causing the falling sperm count in the developed world. At last we have a prime candidate for research and I look forward to seeing some results on this question in the future.

It is still hard to place this in context. My suspicion is that severely reducing fat, salt and sugar in the diet will have far greater health advantages than avoiding plastic. Even so, clearly an area to monitor; and my next storage containers for left-overs will certainly be oven glass or glazed ceramic.

 

[Ming the Merciless]

I think this simply falls into the 'anything you can do to use less plastic is a very good thing' category....
Tonic is available in cans!

Spam comes in cans 😁

 

[presta]

It's interesting to note that water mains have been plastic for years now.

the household no longer does "non-stick" (PTFE / "Teflon") cookware

I've always avoided non-stick cookware because it sticks, but I recently bought a NS frying pan because there weren't any alternatives, and it's great, they've improved since I last tried one.

I always default to oven glass or glazed ceramics to heat things in the microwave — I think it was the indelible staining on microwave-safe plastic containers that made me a bit dubious.

I stopped heating food in plastic because it melts. The tide line becomes superheated, and melts the plastic so that the food is embedded into the plastic.

My suspicion is that severely reducing fat, salt and sugar in the diet will have far greater health advantages than avoiding plastic.

The current thinking is that ultra-processed foodstuffs are the thing to avoid:
http://archive.wphna.org/wp-content...1-3-28-38-Monteiro-Cannon-Levy-et-al-NOVA.pdf

 

[Fab Foodie]

Which will be lined with some plastics material or other.

Sometimes lacquered, yes, but a very thin layer compared to the plastic in a bottle.

 

[Fab Foodie]

Spam comes in cans 😁

As do baked beans - a winning combo. Add a fried egg which comes in its own packing and life is good....

 

[IanSmithCSE]

Good morning,

If I were younger or had children I might worry about this as I have been using a plastic container (not the same one, but the same one for a few years at a time) to steam veg and pasta for the last 30 plus years.

Put pasta, spuds and pretty much any veg into the container, almost press the sealed lid on and microwave for 10 minutes.

I certainly see the logic in asking the question and like a lot of articles based on research, the original paper is not easily accessable if you don't have already have the relevent subscriptions.

So it is hard to understand what the author actually did and what his results really were.

• Is the 3% vinegar in the water a requirement for this effect and does that reflect what I am cooking?
• Are the type of containers used in the test the same as those that I use, given the range of products on the market it seems likely that they are not?
• Is the effect ongoing or do the first few heating cycles get the majority of the unstable parts of the container and cooking cycle 50 comes out clean?

Or course most of use have no idea what processes our food, including uncooked food has gone through by the time we have got it. So if this effect exists in normal use is it 90% of our exposure or 9%, 0.9% or 0.0009%?

I only reason that I use plastic rather than glass is that ......, actually there isn't a reason it is just habit.

Bye

Ian

 

[presta]

Sometimes lacquered, yes, but a very thin layer compared to the plastic in a bottle.

The surface area in contact with the food is the same though.

 

[BoldonLad]

This thread inspired by this article on microwaving plastic containers.

The crux is that storing wet foods / liquids in placcy containers causes an amount of degradation of the container material, which contaminates the contents with "microplastics", which are then of course ingested when the contents is consumed. Finally this contamination is (mostly) excreted back into the water system; with seemingly every acquatic organism affected to some degree according to a study I read some time ago

It seems that unsurprisingly subjecting this whole process to elevated temperature (as found when microwaving) greatly accelerates this process.

There's been limited research on the health implications of this unknowing consumption of plastic, however unsurprisingly existing data suggest it's not good.

Throughout life I've come to accept that anything not immediately found in nature is probably going to be bad for us; as is sadly bourne out by the raft of man-made substances and products once hailed as revolutionary for health or convenience, but subsequently proven to be extremely damaging to us and / or the environment..

As such I've tried to move away from food-adjacent plastics - the household no longer does "non-stick" (PTFE / "Teflon") cookware (choosing enamelled or "ceramic" instead), while I now have a stainless & bamboo lunchbox instead of the plastic one I was using. I've never been much into microwaving; especially in plastic; thankfully. I've already got rid of a lot of manky, no-name plastic food containers and hope to replace them with glass or stainless if I can find something suitable.

On the down-side, since I largely rely on reduced supermarket meats I still buy a fair amount of stuff in single-use plastics (when I get back to Oxford I hope to start using the local butcher more). My beloved gin-companion tonic water also comes in plastic (PET) bottles, which I think are recyclable (assuming this actually happens rather than them quiely being dumped in landfill ). However, one wonders home much of the container material might have leeched into the contents in the weeks they're sat in storage.

I continue to use my placcy Camelbak bottles regularly - both on the bike and when I'm out and about or in the office... these are apparently polypropylene (which is considered to be one of the less-bad plastics) and I always replace their contents if it's sat for any longer than overnight to get rid of any contaminents that might have diffused into it overnight. I'd be very happy to replace these with stainless, although I've not yet found anything that looks as suitable for riding; while I wonder how nicely said bottles would interface with the cages on the bike...

So, while plastics certainly have many legitimate applications, it seems that any directly relating to food are best avoided. I'm interested to hear if anyone else is concerned about this microscopic plastic pollution; and if so how you're seeking to avoid or minimise it

I recently saw on TV some concerns about particulates in water systems, apparently, a significant proportion of these come from tyres, used in transport.

It seems wise to be "concerned" about these things, but, I do wonder about the "natural" bit when talking about food, or the products used to store, prepare, cook etc

For example, I know that wood is naturally occurring, but, is Glass a manmade product, or, is it "natural", similarly paper, stainless steel, aluminium, ceramic?

 

[Fab Foodie]

The surface area in contact with the food is the same though.

With respect to the food - absolutely!
Was thinking the benefit of cans vs plastic bottles wrt reducing total plastics usage.

https://www.foodpackagingforum.org/food-packaging-health/can-coatings

 

[wafter]

Cheers all

Thank you for raising this, wafter. Just on a personal hunch, I always default to oven glass or glazed ceramics to heat things in the microwave — I think it was the indelible staining on microwave-safe plastic containers that made me a bit dubious.

I have often wondered what might be causing the falling sperm count in the developed world. At last we have a prime candidate for research and I look forward to seeing some results on this question in the future.

It is still hard to place this in context. My suspicion is that severely reducing fat, salt and sugar in the diet will have far greater health advantages than avoiding plastic. Even so, clearly an area to monitor; and my next storage containers for left-overs will certainly be oven glass or glazed ceramic.

No worries and yes; I've also experienced the staining and it's mentioned in the article, so it's clear that some reaction / exchange is happening. Likewise that familiar plastic taste in water when it's been left in bottles for a while / at elevated temperature - that has to be quantity of the plastic finding it's way into the water; hasn't it?

I think some plastics have already been linked to falling male fertility; I think because they can mimic oestrogen and suppress testosterone. IIRC "BPA" was one, which is why a lot of stuff is now labelled as "BPA free". I vaguely recall some studies suggesting that this was affecting aquatic life in a similar way.. Personally I'm all for anything resulting from our own actions that acts to curb our ability to reproduce / inflict further damage.

I agree that it's hard to quantify / qualify the potential severity of this issue, however I think it has the potential to be significant - look at the slow-release fallout from other once-popular / promoted / "revolutionary" substances in the past - leaded petrol, CFCs, tobacco, high-fructose corn syrup with the latest being ultra-refined foods and dodgy vegetable oils.

I agree to a point about diet - sugar (or more widely all processed / high-GI carbs) appears to be immensely damaging and probably the single most causal factor of the rocketing rates of diabetes and obesity. Fat is only a problem is it's highly-processed; with saturated fats (such as from good quality meat) being essential, while salt again is necessary for correct electrolyte balance and only a problem when consumed in excess - as found in many hyper-processed foods.

We're a sick society by many metrics - riddled with cancers, heart disease, diabetes, obesity, mental health issues.. this is not natural and through comparison with historic / other societies, it stands to reason that this is the result of factors modern, "developed" society are responsible for.. and increasingly I find myself defaulting to the position that the most natural alternative is always the best.

It's interesting to note that water mains have been plastic for years now.


I've always avoided non-stick cookware because it sticks, but I recently bought a NS frying pan because there weren't any alternatives, and it's great, they've improved since I last tried one.

I stopped heating food in plastic because it melts. The tide line becomes superheated, and melts the plastic so that the food is embedded into the plastic.

The current thinking is that ultra-processed foodstuffs are the thing to avoid:
http://archive.wphna.org/wp-content...1-3-28-38-Monteiro-Cannon-Levy-et-al-NOVA.pdf

That's reassuring about the water mains! Perhaps it's better than lead..

I also find that plastic stuff is generally crap for practical reasons too; for example I can never seem to get it clean as it always seems to retain a greasy coating.. while it's easily damaged by metal utensils. You might want to look up stuff on non-stick (PTFE) coatings..

Totally agree about the ultra-processed foods!

Good morning,

If I were younger or had children I might worry about this as I have been using a plastic container (not the same one, but the same one for a few years at a time) to steam veg and pasta for the last 30 plus years.

Put pasta, spuds and pretty much any veg into the container, almost press the sealed lid on and microwave for 10 minutes.

I certainly see the logic in asking the question and like a lot of articles based on research, the original paper is not easily accessable if you don't have already have the relevent subscriptions.

So it is hard to understand what the author actually did and what his results really were.

• Is the 3% vinegar in the water a requirement for this effect and does that reflect what I am cooking?
• Are the type of containers used in the test the same as those that I use, given the range of products on the market it seems likely that they are not?
• Is the effect ongoing or do the first few heating cycles get the majority of the unstable parts of the container and cooking cycle 50 comes out clean?

Or course most of use have no idea what processes our food, including uncooked food has gone through by the time we have got it. So if this effect exists in normal use is it 90% of our exposure or 9%, 0.9% or 0.0009%?

I only reason that I use plastic rather than glass is that ......, actually there isn't a reason it is just habit.

Bye

Ian

Yes; many unknowns - some of which will doubtless be clarified by ongoing research.

I think the article explains the broad strokes well; bottom line is that all plastics seem to degrade and leech into liquid contents to some extent; which is accelerated at elevated temperatures. It also has a pretty decent breakdown of different plastic types and their potential to cause issues.

Anyone's guess with the age / cycles thing - I know some plastics can become brittle because the higher-volatility fractions off-gas over time so there's maybe some argument that they become stable with more use.. equally it's possible that the process will continue ad-infinitum.

I've always had my suspicions about plastic food containers and the growing body of reseach questioning their safety only strengthens my resolve to bin them off in favour of something more stable..