Plans to make the Bristol-Bath Cycle Path a Bus Route

[mgarl10024]

Hi all,

Should I be worried about this at all?

I still haven't been able to work out the route and whether it involves the cycle path (probably deliberately so). http://www.westofengland.org/media/175309/2 transport map v3.pdf shows a route between Temple Meads and Bath, but a pre-election dated article here would suggest that the route hasn't been decided and yet politicians aren't willing to commit to not use the path.

I'm confused. And I keep getting concerned when reading things like this http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-12376259 which says that a part of a different rapid transit route has been agreed to (I guess not involving the path?), but that it joins other bits.

Thanks,

MG

 

[ufkacbln]

We have one being built in Gosport.

The original plan was to ban cycles all together, but after local protest this was rescinded. Pedestrians however are still banned. You are allowed to walk to the stops, but the present routes to local schools are to be closed.


There is also the fiasco in St Ives Cambridgeshire where the cost is now at over £180 million and rising without a single bus running and no sign of one doing so in the near future.

 

[summerdays]

Hi all,

Should I be worried about this at all?

I wouldn't say it was completely safe - but certainly last time there was large opposition to using the path - it is such a well known and well used path not just by cyclists. As the comment at the bottom says ... I don't think all the councils are in total agreement about it's future though.

I used to follow Chris Hutt's blog whose ear seemed to be very close to the ground about finding out about those sort of things - and he was definitely someone who knew his way around Bristol too.

 

[TheDoctor]

If the Cambridge guided bus is anything to go by, it'll be an unmitigated disaster. Massively late, massively over budget.

 

[jonesy]

But that hasn't stopped DfT giving the go ahead for another one on the former Luton to Dunstable railway line, apparently to be built by the same contractor!

 

[Flying Dodo]

About the only people who want the Luton one are Luton Council. The other councils involved only agreed reluctantly on the basis that they couldn't see any way of getting anything else agreed, and local opinion has always been generally against it.

About 6 months ago they started clearing off all the overgrown trees and lifted the old rail tracks. Then it all went quiet for 2 months, but now they're taking out the old bridges. But yes, it looks like it will be another white elephant.

 

[jonesy]

At least (or so I understand) the Luton one will actually provide a bus priority route into the central area. The Cambridge one ends at the science park, so returns the buses back to the normal, congested, roads to get into the city centre. Putting back the rail service would have been much cheaper, but sadly DfT seem to be determined to do anything to avoid re-opening railway lines. Perhaps all the bureaucracy and cost associated with the franchising and regulatory process puts them off...

 

[captain nemo1701]

Folks should go and read the Joint Local Transport Plan 3 here:

http://www.travelplus.org.uk/our-vision/joint-local-transport-plan-3

Ok, it's a draft copy, but there area few worrying diagrams which are:

Pages 9 & 17 - that pink line from Emmersons Green most certainly follows the path route.

Page 36 - Worrying dashed green line right up the path route which is 'not aligned'

As an engineer, I can tell you that this phrase is corporate-speak for something you really would prefere to do.

Page 67, figure 6.4: Worrying purple line must follow the path.

I bought my house near the path so that I can use it for commuting by bike. We defeated the plans in 2008 and it was shelved. Are the West of England partnership (now defunct?) still suggesting it?.

No wonder the anti-cycling paper The Bristol Evening Pest...sorry..Post supports the proposed Indepenedent Transport Authority (b**tard child of the WEP) if it means destroying the Railway Path in favour of a guided bus route for their pals, First Worst Group (the swine have just put up my train fare to London by £51 )

 

[Red Light]

Some sort of advanced megatram nonsense? Bristol has been talking about those since 89 at least. And the route is wildly inappropriate for it. Attend the meeting! Point and laugh!

And don't forget to remind them of all the red faces in Cambridge over the Misguided Bus fiasco and the Edinburgh tram disaster.

 

[summerdays]

Folks should go and read the Joint Local Transport Plan 3 here:

I've come across the following map through the ASK consultation site:

http://www.scribd.com/fullscreen/60538319

It doesn't show/mention the cycle path (though they would want to hide that hand for as long as possible), on the website map. Though I'm pretty certain that some would like to include the path in the plans. Not sure I'm that keen on the M32 bus only junction!

 

[Richard Mann]

Bus lanes, preferably squeezing space for traffic down to one narrow lane each way, are a much better idea. Guided busways (or trams, or heavy rail for short journeys) are a collosal waste of money when there's perfectly good tarmac to be reallocated instead.

 

[captain nemo1701]

Thanks Summerdays.

As an engineer, I have learnt that 'route not assigned' is sometimes corporate-speak for something that you really want to do and are prepared to go ahead with it but are just waiting for the right moment to announce it.

My take on the situation is that they want to use the path and are waiting for two things:

1) The population of Emmersons Green to expand so that demand rises - the new science park may well achieve this although if I worked there, I'd damn well live nearby!.

2) If the planned BRT from Ashton Gate to the centre is a success, they will try and make the case for the railway path.

My gut feeling is that around 2015, we might see a renewed bid to put BRT on the path.

 

[snibgo]

The Cambridgeshire Misguided Busway has been mentioned a few times. I'll mention that it is due to open this Sunday 7 August, when buses should start running. The adjacent cycletrack ("maintenance track") will also open, mostly. The rest will open sometime later. And we are told it won't flood much. At least, not as much as it currently does.

And I'll mention that one (alleged) advantage of guided versus tarmac is that it takes less width (because the buses can pass close to each other), so they can squeeze in two bus lanes and a cycle track in the width the old railway took. Mostly.

 

[Riverman]

I don't think it is fair wholly to blame the Bristol LAs. The main obstacle has simply been the government's refusal to fund it. Likewise in Leeds, Liverpool and Southampton: millions has been spent developing schemes that then got scrapped because the Treasury considered them to be poor value for money, often citing concerns about cost over-runs, even though road schemes also usual exceed their costs.

Southampton doesn't need mass transit systems beyond occasional buses for long journeys. It's not big enough and besides, Southampton is a very easy city to get around by bike. Like may other cities what Southampton needs are improved cycle routes but most importantly a campaign to get people cycling. I have lived in Southampton for ten years and have cycled for about five of those years. I would never go back to using buses, they're a joke and always will be a joke no matter how frequent they are. They're just not very well suited to serve this city.

 

[jonesy]

Southampton doesn't need mass transit systems beyond occasional buses for long journeys. It's not big enough and besides, Southampton is a very easy city to get around by bike. Like may other cities what Southampton needs are improved cycle routes but most importantly a campaign to get people cycling. I have lived in Southampton for ten years and have cycled for about five of those years. I would never go back to using buses, they're a joke and always will be a joke no matter how frequent they are. They're just not very well suited to serve this city.

Why not? Buses work very well in Oxford, Cambridge and other medium sized cities. The key point, as Richard says earlier, is that they need to be given priority and have road space reallocated to them from cars. You can't expect cycling to replace all local trips, some people simply can't or won't cycle and even in cities where cycling has a large modal share it is predominantly for the shorter trips or up to 2 or 3 miles. I find it highly unlikely that Southampton has such unusually short trip lengths that there isn't a role for buses to replace car journeys in significant numbers for those journeys that are outside mass walking or cycling distances. As regards rail based systems, clearly they are much more expensive, and I'd agree with Richard's view that you should start by prioritising buses properly, however other countries have managed to make light rail work successfully in cities like Southampton (which is of course part of a much larger conurbation, with many other large population centres close by).