Pinarello Dogma F12 vs. Lapierre Aircode SL700 Ultimate

[Colin Grigson]

I admire your honesty and integrity about your wishes
I thought you would get a load of sarcasm just because your in a position to spend so much
I bought a high end S works s few years back ..I was wanting the tarmac but went for a roubaix as I was getting older and the roubaix had relaxed geometry...looking g back I'd rather have had the stiffer bike as I feel I put myself down a little and I wasn't getting as old as fast as I thought
You may be the same ...I doubt you will break your back on a dogma ..yes it is stiff bit it's an all round bike as well
I hired a dogma in Puerto polenso in majorca did 40 to 60 miles a day for 5 days on it.. never came back crippled or aching from it
Its 4k extra yes and will you save 4k
But will you "waste" 4k on a lapiere as its NOT what you really wanted
You will always wonder what if I just got that dogma
Hang off till next year ..ineos are not going great if they loose a sponsor or jump ship then I assume the dogma will come crashing down in price
The advice you always hear about anything ...Is "buy the best you can afford"...bikes are your thing
Think how much the satisfaction is worth by spending a little more...maybe not in components but giving you good mental health and well being in owning a quality bike
Good luck in your decision and I'm glad you did not get a lot of jealous posts
By the way ...pinerello experience who hire the dogmas in majorca will also sell you a used ex hire one as well ..you would not tell they were used that much as they literally have 30 to 50 dogmas hung up and the same amount GANs and other models...get a weekend booked out there and try it out on flat smooth rds
Long slow climbs ..steep climbs ..gravel rds ..bumpy rds majorca has them all..no good riding round a car park then handing over a load of cash

Sage advice Lookrider ... thank you. I’m certain the F12 will suit because I’ve been riding an original 65.1 Dogma the past 6 months, and I too am not crippled by it.

 

[Colin Grigson]

Of the two, I prefer the looks of the F12, partly as I prefer the aesthetics of the clean fork crown that you get with discs.

You're in the lucky position that you can choose which of these two you want, in terms of value I think the Lapierre is the better choice if it's similar spec, €4k isn't justified by the uplift for disc brakes.

You could take the extra cash and drop in an additional wheelset - deep section would be nice say some 60mm deep wheels along with some really nice skinwall tyres. You'd still have nearly €3k left over too.

But Si, it’s not just disk brakes ... it’s Pinarello - the name musters thoughts of TdeF wins, pedigree, and well, a stupid amount of money for a bike

 

[Colin Grigson]

Nothing wrong with the LaPierre and I'd have one any time, but the Dogma is gorgeous and my goodness, it's such an iconic bike. I think it sounds like you're leaning that way and I understand that, when I was looking for a particular bike (not quite that level of expenditure but still....) I had my heart set on the dearest option, the looks of it, the reputation, the quality.... Yes I could have saved a wedge by getting something else that could do the job, but I went ahead and bought that bike that had grabbed me, and I'm so, so happy with it. I know deep down that even though they were as capable, if I bought one of the slightly cheaper options that didn't quite grab me, I'd always be wondering.

You have the money, you probably deserve it, so treat yourself. And more power to you.

Thank you CT .. this is what I wanted to hear ....

 

[Randomnerd]

Another classic CC Big Wedge Small Wedge thread. Well done everyone. That’s a wrap.

 

[Tripster]

They certainly are an abomination, and I would not pull a dumped disc-braked beater out of a builders skip, let alone spend upwards of four bags on a new road bike with the blades of the butchers bacon slicer bolted to the wheels.

You go overboard with your criticism too much almost sounding angry



Am I going to have an attack of high end carbon envy, because someone has got the readies? No, because even though I've also got the cash, if I'm spending that much on something with wheels on it, it won't be a push bike of any kind. I expect an engine for that sort of money, not pedals. Neither appeals to me, but given the choice, a less ugly rim-braked bike at half the price is a bit of a no-brainer. Let the dentists pay for their status symbols, don't follow the herd and save a nice chunk of cash into the bargain.

The title of the thread is not ‘ Look at me, I have the readies and you dont’
The OP does not ask “which bike are you most envious of ....eh eh... you Got Carbon envy “????
When is it claimed to be a statues symbol and not a bike to be ridden ?
Why is he following the herd ? Which herd ? Not like a Dogma is a common bike ridden by the masses ?
Do you read threads or just look for people to pull to pieces and criticise ?
You seem the type of bloke at work who when someone has something new or different, rather than say nothing and just keep away you cannot help yourself swanning over and ripping it all to shreds just because you want to. The knob of the factory

 

[Drago]

You simply cant tell how well a bike rides from a spec sheet. Some high spec rides are distinctly mediocre, while some cheap ones are eminently smile worthy.

The only definitive way to decide which is best for you personally is to ride them. None of us can decide that for you.

Good luck. Let us know how you get on.

 

[Colin Grigson]

You simply cant tell how well a bike rides from a spec sheet. Some high spec rides are distinctly mediocre, while some cheap ones are eminently smile worthy.

The only definitive way to decide which is best for you personally is to ride them. None of us can decide that for you.

Good luck. Let us know how you get on.

Thanks Drago, the mediocrity (relatively speaking) is slightly putting me off the Lapierre ... I defy even the most cynical person to describe the F12 as mediocre - forget the cost for a moment ... that’s a different kettle of fish

 

[vickster]

Thanks Drago, the mediocrity (relatively speaking) is slightly putting me off the Lapierre ... I defy even the most cynical person to describe the F12 as mediocre - forget the cost for a moment ... that’s a different kettle of fish

It’s not something I would ever consider as it’s just not my type of bike (nothing to do with the cost although I would struggle a lot to justify that sort of spend on any bike, simply not necessary for going to the shops, for a coffee )

 

[Tripster]

Thanks Drago, the mediocrity (relatively speaking) is slightly putting me off the Lapierre ... I defy even the most cynical person to describe the F12 as mediocre - forget the cost for a moment ... that’s a different kettle of fish

On looks alone, nothing else, I like the lines of the Lapierre more. Not keen on the front fork shape on the Dogma. But I have said before I think rim brake bikes look cleaner and smart on road bikes. I prefer discs on mine but still like the look of rims. So on looks it’s the Lappy 🙂

 

[Colin Grigson]

On looks alone, nothing else, I like the lines of the Lapierre more. Not keen on the front fork shape on the Dogma. But I have said before I think rim brake bikes look cleaner and smart on road bikes. I prefer discs on mine but still like the look of rims. So on looks it’s the Lappy 🙂

I agree ... the disc brakes are most probably the only thing I positively dislike on the Dogma - to such a degree that I enquired about a ‘non-sale’ Dogma equipped with rim brakes .... it’s another step up in price though, and whether or not I have the money, it’s another step up in justification ... to myself and others affected by the purchase .... it’s a difficult choice buying a new bike - I’ve always bought secondhand previously whereby the spec was what was available in my size, much simpler although always a compromise.

 

[vickster]

Do you still get the full warranty on both bikes if they’re not new? Worth checking given how much you’re spending

 

[fossyant]

Discs may work out a better option with carbon rims. Alloy rims, then I have no braking issues in the wet with caliper brakes.

Just that rim wear may look a mess on carbon after a while. If looking to spend £8k I wouldn't want Ultegra.

Canyon ?

 

[Tripster]

I agree ... the disc brakes are most probably the only thing I positively dislike on the Dogma - to such a degree that I enquired about a ‘non-sale’ Dogma equipped with rim brakes .... it’s another step up in price though, and whether or not I have the money, it’s another step up in justification ... to myself and others affected by the purchase .... it’s a difficult choice buying a new bike - I’ve always bought secondhand previously whereby the spec was what was available in my size, much simpler although always a compromise.

I don’t dislike disc brakes I just think on a full carbon super duper race bike they look out of place but look fine on the majority of bikes. If you have always bought secondhand and been frugal then this is your chance to spend and enjoy. I would have thought a rim brake bike would be cheaper than a disc ? I could have bought a perfectly, in fact excellent Aluminium road bike from my local dealer, 2021, looked smart and felt good and would be more than I would ever need at £1600 cheaper than what I eventually bought but I drooled over the other bike and was like a kid at Christmas building it. It makes me happy and my wife could see how happy I was. The other bike was just ok and a bike. You have to love it to ride it more.
Remember.....have no regrets

 

[fossyant]

Discs are rather agricultural in look, but loads of modern road bikes are TBH - big fat tubes, and it's the way the market is going. My Guide RS's calipers on my MTB are 'tiny' but are incredible at stopping, but MTB's need that power and, importantly, modulation.

Have you thought about buying frame then components. If your budget is £8k, I'd look at a Colnago and non-electronic Super Record/Record, then spec some good alloy wheels, for a super all round bike. You'll drop £3.5k on the frame, £1.5k-£2k on groupset, £500 on good light alloy wheels, then the rest on bling.

 

[Tripster]

Many posts of the "what should I get with £Xk" variety are thinly veiled appeals for approval rather than real questions, IMHO...

Maybe many of your posts ridiculing everyone’s bike choice is just thinly veiled appeals for approval of buying shite and riding shite IMHO. You protest way to much about people’s choices