Peter Sagan and the TdF

[rich p]

He's in a cleft stick or summink.
On the one hand he's a shoo-in for the points jersey again, barring Acts of God, but he hasn't won a stage. He may yet, I know, but Kittel is way behind in the points race but has won 3 stages. I'm pretty sure the German will be the happier of the two.
In my opinion the points jersey is second from last in the sack race - an interesting sideshow but ultimately pointless.
I'm not sure where he can go or how he can change things but he's in danger of falling between stools, especially as he's now a marked man and is finding it harder to win races/stages, in the last year or two. He's an immense talent and still young but I'd hate to see it all dissipated on fluff.
Would he be satisfied with a career palmares showing the odd Classics win, a handful of stages and a wardrobe of green jerseys?
Waddya think?

 

[Flick of the Elbow]

If he was a little more careful in how he uses his team and his own energies he could have won two stages by now, today being one of them.

 

[jack smith]

Ive been routing for him since the start but i dont get the tour what so ever kittel has won more stages so how he is so low in the rankings confuses me if he has rode the route the fastest he deserves to be winning in my opinion

 

[tigger]

If he was a little more careful in how he uses his team and his own energies he could have won two stages by now, today being one of them.

Agreed. Biologically academic but tactically stupid I think.

 

[themosquitoking]

Ive been routing for him since the start but i dont get the tour what so ever kittel has won more stages so how he is so low in the rankings confuses me if he has rode the route the fastest he deserves to be winning in my opinion

Sagan has finished in the top five on every stage, he collects points in the intermediate sprints too, Kittel finished 20 mins down on stage 2 but every time he finished first guess who was right behind him. Sagan has targeted the green jersey and deserves it but i hope he gets a stage win too.

 

[laurence]

Ive been routing for him since the start but i dont get the tour what so ever kittel has won more stages so how he is so low in the rankings confuses me if he has rode the route the fastest he deserves to be winning in my opinion

luckily the race doesn't run to your opinion - Kittel may have been fastest on the stages he won, but he lost 18 minutes on stage 5 and 19 minutes on stage 2. he is a long way from being the fastest over the route.

Sagan may not have won any stages, but he has placed higher than Kittel on all but the ones Marcel won.

 

[deptfordmarmoset]

He's in a cleft stick or summink.
On the one hand he's a shoo-in for the points jersey again, barring Acts of God, but he hasn't won a stage. He may yet, I know, but Kittel is way behind in the points race but has won 3 stages. I'm pretty sure the German will be the happier of the two.
In my opinion the points jersey is second from last in the sack race - an interesting sideshow but ultimately pointless.
I'm not sure where he can go or how he can change things but he's in danger of falling between stools, especially as he's now a marked man and is finding it harder to win races/stages, in the last year or two. He's an immense talent and still young but I'd hate to see it all dissipated on fluff.
Would he be satisfied with a career palmares showing the odd Classics win, a handful of stages and a wardrobe of green jerseys?
Waddya think?

I reckon he's going to pinch Ned Boulting's bum when he wins one.

 

[themosquitoking]

He's in a cleft stick or summink.
On the one hand he's a shoo-in for the points jersey again, barring Acts of God, but he hasn't won a stage. He may yet, I know, but Kittel is way behind in the points race but has won 3 stages. I'm pretty sure the German will be the happier of the two.
In my opinion the points jersey is second from last in the sack race - an interesting sideshow but ultimately pointless.
I'm not sure where he can go or how he can change things but he's in danger of falling between stools, especially as he's now a marked man and is finding it harder to win races/stages, in the last year or two. He's an immense talent and still young but I'd hate to see it all dissipated on fluff.
Would he be satisfied with a career palmares showing the odd Classics win, a handful of stages and a wardrobe of green jerseys?
Waddya think?

Give him a couple of years to mature up a bit more, he's done a lot of that in the last twelve months, and i reckon he'll be a full on GC contender. Who would bet against a Sagan, Quintana, Quintana podium of some order in maybe 3 years?

 

[Donger]

luckily the race doesn't run to your opinion - Kittel may have been fastest on the stages he won, but he lost 18 minutes on stage 5 and 19 minutes on stage 2. he is a long way from being the fastest over the route.

Sagan may not have won any stages, but he has placed higher than Kittel on all but the ones Marcel won.

I'm coming round to your way of thinking. After 3 stages, I was starting to think there was something wrong with the points system, but you have to hand it to Sagan, being in the points every day and coming close however the race shapes up. He is still young, and If he works on his climbing and time trialling, I could see him being a genuine GC contender in a couple of years time. Failing that, what's wrong with settling for a palmares that includes a couple of classic wins and a whole bunch of green jerseys (as mentioned by an earlier poster)? That's better than a kick in the b***s with a diver's boot.

 

[jazzkat]

Give him time. He's 10 years younger than Wiggins, 8 years younger than Contador, 5 years younger than Froome and Nibali.

I think he's one of the most exciting riders in the peloton. He's a great rouler and so consistent. He's got a sense of style and humour that could (if it hasn't already) make him a bit of a poster boy for cycle racing. His comment to Ned Boulting about how would he feel if he'd fallen off twice was a classic!

I perhaps come across as a bit of a fan boy, I'm not (honest!), I just think he's got his best years to come.

As far as just having a couple of classics and a wardrobe full of green, wow, there are riders in the peloton that would die happy with that palmares!

 

[Crackle]

I've never seen him so pissed off before. I think he's realized that talent and impishness will only take him so far and now he's set the bar higher for himself, he's finding the whole thing a bit weightier, responsibility of leading a team etc… I think we're seeing a maturing Sagan who's stopped being the race clown. It'll be interesting to see if he can rise to the challenge he seems to have set himself.

 

[thom]

Green Gauge
The rider of the 2014 Tour de France's first week is Peter Sagan. So why is his brilliance taken for granted?
http://rouleur.cc/journal/racing/green-gauge

By Andy McGrath

"A few Julys ago, while working as a reporter at Cycling Weekly, we had an afternoon meeting (those things should be abolished during the Tour de France). It meant we missed that day’s flat stage.

Emerging from the conference room, I asked who had won. “Mark Cavendish,” was the reply. But of course. No note of excitement in the respondent’s voice, no surprise for me to hear it. It was like asking someone for the time. I sat down and got on with my work.

This was at the height of Cavendish’s dominance, a time it was more surprising when he didn’twin a bunch sprint. So when the Manx sprinter tumbled out on day one of this year's race, it made me rue that presumption.

How quickly we Britons – I can’t have been the only one - went from a nation of Tour fringe performers to one gorged on Mark Cavendish victories, treating four or five stage wins per Tour as commonplace.

Now, in the first week of the 2014 Tour de France, I’m recognising a similar under-reaction to Peter Sagan’s incredible consistency. For me, the rider of the first week is undoubtedly the Slovakian. His results so far: second, fourth, second, fourth, fourth, fifth (despite crashing yesterday). He hasn’t won a stage, but it’s only a matter of time.

Yet all the plaudits belong to Vincenzo Nibali and Marcel Kittel, all the attention is fixated on the comportment of the yellow jersey contenders over the cobbles. Sagan’s sashay to the green jersey is taken as an unremarkable fait accompli.

Let’s remind ourselves of the facts. He’s only 24, still eligible for the white jersey, and already seemingly cruising to a third consecutive green jersey. “Sagan could take a rest day and still be ahead of them,” Sean Kelly remarked cuttingly in the Eurosport commentary yesterday.

He has the bike handling skills of a trials rider and the pizzazz of a rock star. If it was a new rider doing all this, he’d be praised to the hilt.

Is it because crushing dominance becomes boring when it isn’t new? Perhaps. But sometimes you have to doff your hat and recognise just what he is doing. It is ludicrous in this era of cycling specialisation to have an all-rounder who could mix it with the Tour contenders on the grippy hills outside Sheffield, finish on Kittel’s coat-tails in bunch sprints and smash it with the pavé powerhouses, all the while grabbing intermediate sprint points. Professional cycling hasn’t seen a rider like this for many years.

So, don’t take Peter Sagan for granted. Before we know it, his reign will be over and we’ll be tearing down a champion that we under-appreciated in the first place."

 

[rich p]

Give him time. He's 10 years younger than Wiggins, 8 years younger than Contador, 5 years younger than Froome and Nibali.

I think he's one of the most exciting riders in the peloton. He's a great rouler and so consistent. He's got a sense of style and humour that could (if it hasn't already) make him a bit of a poster boy for cycle racing. His comment to Ned Boulting about how would he feel if he'd fallen off twice was a classic!

I perhaps come across as a bit of a fan boy, I'm not (honest!), I just think he's got his best years to come.

As far as just having a couple of classics and a wardrobe full of green, wow, there are riders in the peloton that would die happy with that palmares!

I think you're missing my point. I have already agreed that he's young which gives him time to change his approach. I'm not sure what he'll change into.
IMHO, as I said earlier, the points jersey is a sideshow and a rider with such talent must have higher ambition than a couple of Classics and some green.
My point is that he's not just any rider in the peloton - and he'll want more than that on his palmares.

 

[jazzkat]

I think you're missing my point. I have already agreed that he's young which gives him time to change his approach. I'm not sure what he'll change into.
IMHO, as I said earlier, the points jersey is a sideshow and a rider with such talent must have higher ambition than a couple of Classics and some green.
My point is that he's not just any rider in the peloton - and he'll want more than that on his palmares.

I know where you are coming from, the points jerseys - green, white and KoM are more of a competition within a competition, might be semantics but I wouldn't dismiss them as a sideshow (if indeed you are being dismissive).
As Crackle says above, he doesn't seem a happy bunny at the moment and maybe the enormity of the task is starting to dawn on him, but if he continues with the consistency and ability he has shown so far, it's only a matter of time. As it stands he's in third place with only 44 seconds down. I'm sure he's got the big one in his sights, who knows this time next week he might have a different jersey on?
Damn, I do sound like a fan boy

 

[suzeworld]

If he was a little more careful in how he uses his team and his own energies he could have won two stages by now, today being one of them.

Yea, I'm far from an expert but even I could see the tactical errors he made yesterday! Is it a youth / experience thing?

Hope he does manage to get at least one stage at some point..

dunno if I agree with the journo, though, I dont feel like I am taking him for granted myself .. I really like him!