Performance Plateau - Help...

[Upstream]

Hi all,
I'm hoping that someone may be able to provide some guidance... A few short years ago when I started road cycling, I would struggle to maintain 10mph over a 15 mile route. What I found was by riding once or twice each week I quickly improved to where 10mph felt comfortable and at a stretch I could push around 12mph. I have continued to progress and now with a bit of effort I regularly do rides of around 35 miles (with an average of around 1,100 feet of ascent) at 15.5 average speed. I'm happy with that but here lies my problem...

No matter what I do, I seem to have hit a performance plateau and I can't seem to break that avg 15.5mph over 35 miles. I have been at this level for at least 6 or 7 months now and despite cycling most weekends right throughout the winter, and using a spin bike for 3 sessions each week - I just seem to be maintaining that level.

In terms of diet, I'd say I'm a healthy eater. I don't smoke or drink and I get plenty of sleep at night. That having been said I'm also mid 40's so not exactly a spring chicken ;-)

I don't go to the gym and to be honest the thought of that isn't at all appealing but I have ridden some sportives up to 75.5 miles and been ok.

Any ideas or do I just need to accept the fact that I've reached my max performance level and that it won't get any better than this?

Thanks.

 

[Sittingduck]

Ride more miles and more regular rides, might be my first suggestion. Hard to improve performance much if you're only going out at weekends. Can you get out on the road at least 3 or 4 days a week and vary what you are doing - longer rides, hily rides, shorter fast efforts? You say that you do spinning but are not a gym member - do you mean solo turbo sessions at home or something? What is your weight like?

 

[VamP]

I'm in my mid forties, and strongly disagree that you have hit your genetic ceiling.

Tell me if I am wrong, but I wager that you do all your rides at roughly the same effort. It's a sure fire way to build the highest of plateau's. The way to improve is to shock your system, in an ever growing pattern of overload and recovery.

The best return on your riding time will be to introduce a couple of sessions of 2x20 minutes per week. You should go as hard as you can continuosly sustain for the whole 20 minutes, take 5 minutes easy riding and go again. Rest on the following day. Have three hard weeks, followed by an easier week. The next block of three hard weeks should be harder than the previous block.

Change things around every six week or so. When you feel fatigued, rest properly. When you are on a training ride, go hard. Develop some long, and medium term goals to work towards. Lose weight if you can.

Above all ride more. Build up to 150 - 200 miles per week.

This is generic advice that will benefit 90% of people on a plateau. If you want more specific advice, you will have to tell me a lot more about what you are doing during your session, the volume and intensity , and some more information about yourself.

 

[Rob3rt]

All we know is, you ride a bike a bit! What do you do with your time spent on the bike?

If you just bimble about, can you realistically expect to get good at anything other than bimbling?

If you want to get fast, you need to learn to suffer!

 

[Upstream]

Hi guys,
Thanks for the info. To answer a few questions;
Weight wise I can't do much really. I'm 78 kilos which is heavier than most of the guys I ride with but I'm quite tall too (6ft 2 inches). With the spinning - I bought a spin bike about 6 months ago and use it at home. I try to vary things - ie sometimes try to concentrate on cardio, other times on legs. I usually spend one hour per session on the spin bike although when I push really hard, it may be 30 mins.

I guess when I'm out on my weekend rides, I do feel as though I'm "bimbling about" at around 15 mph - the problem is I'd like to be able to go faster but to do that, at the moment at least, I'd need to reduce the distance otherwise I'd find myself shattered and miles away from home ;-)

 

[VamP]

What's your riding history? How many miles total, this year, weekly.

What would you like to do?

Increase both volume and intensity. Do this gradually, so that you don't end up ''shattered miles from home''.

This never happens BTW. When you feel too fatigued to continue at the higher intensity, just reduce intensity.

 

[bornagainst]

There is a huge amount of improvement to come if you train right and train hard... Don't give up because you think you're old.

One of the 'old fella's' I ride with is 55ish and last weekend did a wet and blustery 75 mile sportive (3000ft climbing) with an 18mph average speed.. He taught me a lesson!

Keep on it, and you'll improve.

 

[Rob3rt]

Hi guys,
Thanks for the info. To answer a few questions;
Weight wise I can't do much really. I'm 78 kilos which is heavier than most of the guys I ride with but I'm quite tall too (6ft 2 inches). With the spinning - I bought a spin bike about 6 months ago and use it at home. I try to vary things - ie sometimes try to concentrate on cardio, other times on legs. I usually spend one hour per session on the spin bike although when I push really hard, it may be 30 mins.

I guess when I'm out on my weekend rides, I do feel as though I'm "bimbling about" at around 15 mph - the problem is I'd like to be able to go faster but to do that, at the moment at least, I'd need to reduce the distance otherwise I'd find myself shattered and miles away from home ;-)

I don't know about your build (weight doesn't really tell you that much, you could be all muscle at that weight, or you could be skinnyfat), if your build is anything like me, I would say that getting lighter is a viable option, but not necessary and it could be of detriment if you lose too much raw power, I am taller (6' 3") and lighter (75-76kg) and could go lighter, so for your height, build permitting there is definitely scope for reduction. However, I don't really think you ought to be worrying about a kg or two at your current level of fitness. Aerobic gains will eclipse anything you can do to you body weight at this stage.

Re. your bimbling, it could be said that if you aren't hurting, you aren't anywhere close to your limit! If you can have a conversation while riding then you are most certainly not trying hard enough! But this is not necessarily bad, should you choose for this ride to be your base endurance ride each week and save the real pain for the spinning machine.

What do you do on the spinning machine in your 3 sessions? Possibly we can suggest some changes you can make that will help stimulate improvement without leaving you a jibbering wreck.

If you want the weekend road ride to be a hard ride, rather then take an our and back tyre route, plot a circuit around your home or a train station (or passing a few stations on the way) so you can bail if you are completely spent.

BTW, don't knock the 40+ brigade My club mate is >40 and he managed to beat a young professional rider who is a world record setting pursuit rider in a 10 TT the other week with an average speed of 29.5 mph!

 

[Hip Priest]

Instead of riding the whole route at a steady pace, why not trying throwing in a few hard efforts? Pick out a couple of challenging hills on your route, and attack them as hard as you can.

That's what worked for me.

 

[Upstream]

Hi again guys and thanks for the continued advice. In terms of distance, at the moment I'm averaging around 65 miles per week. Earlier in the year (January I think) during a Strava challenge I pretty much doubled that but instead of getting faster, all I found was that my thighs would hurt all the time; on or off the bike.

I'd like to get to an average of 18mph and to be honest I don't even know if this is at all achievable although I did manage to get from 10 to 15mph pretty quickly. I should perhaps also clarify that on flat I can cruise along quite quickly without fatigue, it's the hills that seems to get me. Don't get me wrong, I don't stop and get off the bike but my speed drops off significantly and living in quite a hilly area, the hills knock my average speed quite a bit.

I'd describe my build as being closer to a long distance runner rather than a cyclist - if that makes sense. I'm only lightly muscled so in terms of power output - it's probably not that great and whilst I ride a 39 / 52 chainset with 12 - 27 on the rear, I spend most of my time spinning on the smaller chain ring and that's where I'm most comfortable.

On the spin bike I usually try to alternate between cardio and legs. A typical session may be 1 hour, listening to music with a fast tempo and with a relatively light tension, spinning at 90+rpm with bursts for 1 minute of 95+rpm. This is interspersed with 1 or 2 minute high tension, out of the saddle "climbs". Sometimes if I'm feeling quite fresh I'll do anything from 2 to 5 minutes out of the saddle at high tension (when I refer to high tension I mean where the tension is such that if I remain seated, I can no longer turn the pedals at all).

On flat sections I can sit in the low 20's - the only problem is that I run out of flat section before I run out of steam so I'm not sure if I could keep that going for as long as it feels that I'd be able to.

I guess I'm just out of ideas as to what I need to do to continue the improvement. I have heard of the laws of diminishing returns and perhaps that's what's kicking in here. I have a full time job and a family too so if I'd need to train for huge amounts of time each week to get to 18mph, maybe I'll need to revise my goal somewhat.

What do you think...?

 

[ColinJ]

One thing that doesn't seem to have been mentioned is fuel - i.e. calories. Are you sure that you are not just running out of energy when the going gets tough? Try 300 Cals an hour of sports drinks while you are riding and see if that makes any difference.

 

[Rob3rt]

Hi again guys and thanks for the continued advice. In terms of distance, at the moment I'm averaging around 65 miles per week. Earlier in the year (January I think) during a Strava challenge I pretty much doubled that but instead of getting faster, all I found was that my thighs would hurt all the time; on or off the bike.

It is called DOMS and it is natural and normal for you to feel this way when fatigued. Furthermore becoming fatigued is an essential part of over reaching. Additionally, by the very mechanism of over reaching and recovering, you would not realise fitness gains in the time scale you seem to be expecting. You don't get fitter and faster as you pile on the pressure, you get fitter and faster when you recover, i.e. in order to get fitter and faster you must consistently over-reach to stress your body, then recover. Seems you don't like to over-reach!

I'd like to get to an average of 18mph and to be honest I don't even know if this is at all achievable although I did manage to get from 10 to 15mph pretty quickly. I should perhaps also clarify that on flat I can cruise along quite quickly without fatigue, it's the hills that seems to get me. Don't get me wrong, I don't stop and get off the bike but my speed drops off significantly and living in quite a hilly area, the hills knock my average speed quite a bit.

Again you seem to be rather alarmed and shocked by the obvious, you WILL slow down going up hill, unless you increase your effort, if you increase your effort you WILL fatigue more quickly. Either maintain effort and accept the drop in speed or accept that you are going to hurt!

I'd describe my build as being closer to a long distance runner rather than a cyclist - if that makes sense. I'm only lightly muscled so in terms of power output - it's probably not that great and whilst I ride a 39 / 52 chainset with 12 - 27 on the rear, I spend most of my time spinning on the smaller chain ring and that's where I'm most comfortable.

Musculature is hardly indicative of power output in a cyclist, at least not in endurance terms (the more explosive riders and discplines tend to have larger muscle mass). Have you seen Wiggo's legs? Hardly muscular! lol.

On the spin bike I usually try to alternate between cardio and legs. A typical session may be 1 hour, listening to music with a fast tempo and with a relatively light tension, spinning at 90+rpm with bursts for 1 minute of 95+rpm. This is interspersed with 1 or 2 minute high tension, out of the saddle "climbs". Sometimes if I'm feeling quite fresh I'll do anything from 2 to 5 minutes out of the saddle at high tension (when I refer to high tension I mean where the tension is such that if I remain seated, I can no longer turn the pedals at all).

You alternate between cardio and legs, what's that now?

Maybe you ought to stop trying to do "legs" and back that tension off so you can focus on sitting in the saddle and driving the pedals round. If you can't turn the cranks, you have the tension too high.

On flat sections I can sit in the low 20's - the only problem is that I run out of flat section before I run out of steam so I'm not sure if I could keep that going for as long as it feels that I'd be able to.

I guess I'm just out of ideas as to what I need to do to continue the improvement. I have heard of the laws of diminishing returns and perhaps that's what's kicking in here. I have a full time job and a family too so if I'd need to train for huge amounts of time each week to get to 18mph, maybe I'll need to revise my goal somewhat.

Unlikely, tbh, 18mph is not really a great stretch for a flat ride and you should achieve it with relative ease should you accept that you will have to endure some discomfort. If you are not constraining your goal by terrain, then you need to contextualise it, is your aim indeed to do 18mph on a pan flat course or on a hilly course, because this is a different thing entirely. Average speed is not an absolute, it will vary with conditions and terrain. I can average upwards of 24 mph for extended periods (>1 hour, or for 25 miles if you need to put a test distance on it), on the flat but drop me in the peak district and you won't see numbers anywhere close to that.

What do you think...?

Got to be honest here........ I think the issue stems from a reluctance to endure discomfort! If your legs ache, so what, it is just a bit of soreness, it will pass. It is transient!

 

[DWiggy]

If my legs aren't hurting i've not been trying hard enough and my legs are constantly hurt!! (but every ride for me is done at full boar) I commute 10 miles each way, 6 days a week with a longer Saturday ride and really give it every day, strava segments keep me really interested .
When I first started I was a wreck but I kept going and now my body has adjusted the only side effects now are a massive appetite and sore legs....love it!

 

[MrJamie]

I found messing about with Strava helped me break a little bit of a plateau with speed, setting some good segments on areas I ride and trying to improve, some very short some 10minutes or so, but it meant that some of my typical say 30 mile rides were a fairly constant effort level and others were more like intervals. In the week I sometimes cycle one of my 10k running routes, about 6 1/2 miles, which only takes 20-25mins so is quite easy to fit into an evening. I think what I'm trying to say is rather than repeating the same programme at the same intensity, finding ways to stretch yourself and as Rob says make yourself hurt and your body should adapt.

Also be wary of comparing speed with people on different roads, terrain, bikes, weather etc etc.

 

[Upstream]

Got to be honest here........ I think the issue stems from a reluctance to endure discomfort! If your legs ache, so what, it is just a bit of soreness, it will pass. It is transient!

Hi again...

Maybe I haven't quite explained what I'm experiencing completely so thanks for sticking with me on this...

When I'm out doing my rides, I do definately suffer, especially going up hills and I do push as hard as I can. In January when I had more than doubled my miles and my legs constantly ached, I could have lived with that except that my legs ached but I didn't get any faster - In fact at one point I actually got slower and posted within a thread on this forum where someone else was experiencing "burning" legs all the time. I'm all for pushing myself but where I've got a bit lost is that nowadays, even when pushing myself, I just can't seem to see any performance gains. My goal is to be able to average 18mph over 35 miles not on the flat (I'm pretty certain that I could do that easily enough now) but with an average of 1,100 feet of ascent (which is pretty representative of the hilly terrain locally).

Is what you may be suggesting that I need to push myself hard and have my legs ache for a longer period of time than say one month before I'll see any additional improvement? I guess what I'm trying to do is maximise my effort (in terms of increasing my speed) rather than just putting in effort that isn't targetted correctly and therefore doesn't result in performance increases.

I suppose what I'm looking for is some sort of magic formula where someone on the forum says "ok you need to do xyz and if you do that, in x amount of weeks you'll hit 18mph average over 35 miles and riding hilly terrain" ;-)

It all seems very technical and that's even before we start talking about the bike!