Paul Kimmage on Lance Armstrong

[addictfreak]

That's absolutely 100% wrong as far as I'm concerned. I certainly don't revel in bringing him down.

I was inspired by Armstrong when I first took up cycling, I read his book and was so impressed by his tenacity and how he came back to be so strong.

Now, I've read all the evidence including the welter of circumstantial stuff and feel that he badly let me down. Feet of clay.

It was a general observation and not directed a anyone in particular.

As I said he may or may not be guilty. Im sure if I searched I could find enough evidence to in support of guilt and innocence.

Until its proved in a court of law, i will extended him the right of innocent until proven guilty.

 

[rich p]

It was a general observation and not directed a anyone in particular.

As I said he may or may not be guilty. Im sure if I searched I could find enough evidence to in support of guilt and innocence.

Until its proved in a court of law, i will extended him the right of innocent until proven guilty.

AS I said earlier, AF, I can't think of any positive dope test that has ended in court! Although I may be wrong

 

[addictfreak]

AS I said earlier, AF, I can't think of any positive dope test that has ended in court! Although I may be wrong

I think theres an issue in this case about government funding, thats why federal investigators are looking at it.

But I could also be wrong, would nt be the first time

 

[Aperitif]

It's interesting trying to form an opinion...

 

[mickle]

What a weird post!

If you're so bored then why on earth click onto a thread about it.

Very few of the dopers, if any, end up in a law court. The usual punishment is a ban of varying length.

If some of us enjoy posting and speculating what business is it of yours? I must have missed the election which appointed you milk monitor. I slightly resent being told to shut the f*** up!

Kimmage has only written one book about cycling as far as I know and that was 20 odd years ago, so I doubt that stirring up sales is his motivation!

What a weird post yourself!

I participated in the discussion because I have an opinion.

Not 'LA is guilty' and not 'LA is not guilty' but 'The endless speculation about whether LA is guilty of doping is damaging to the sport'. And I'll hold that view until solid evidence is produced.

I don't want him to be uncovered as a cheat. Not because I like him particularly but because it would cause immense damage to cycle sport. Immense damage. It would implode, and I, as a lifelong fan, would just be gutted.

It's ok not to like him, he's not a very likeable guy in my view, but this endless speculation has a whiff of anti-Americanism.

I just think Kimmage should put up or shut up.

In my opinion.

Hope that's ok.

 

[dellzeqq]

Kimmage has provided an account, and it's coherent. It ties in with other accounts. Whether it's correct is another matter, and I doubt that any of us will ever know for sure. Whether any of us will ever know if Armstrong gained an advantage from doping, given the general condition of professional cycling is anybody's guess. I infer from things that David Millar has said that doping was general in some teams.

Although Kimmage has a job to do, and nobody can deny that he's doing it, his remarks about Armstrong getting lucky with cancer rather than beating it are ungenerous. My recollection of the book is that Armstrong was quite humble about his dealings with cancer, and claims no special power. He's extravagant (as well might all of us be) about the support given to him by a nurse, and by the oncologists, and by his first wife.

 

[Aperitif]

As Lance might muse 'Every day is a winding road...'

 

[marzjennings]

As Lance might muse 'Every day is a winding road...'

Great, now I have that song in my head....

 

[yello]

I don't want him to be uncovered as a cheat. Not because I like him particularly but because it would cause immense damage to cycle sport. Immense damage. It would implode, and I, as a lifelong fan, would just be gutted.

One shouldn't be afraid of damage.


What if there was systematic doping? Can you see how your opinion is omerta like? It's in the interests of cycling to end the speculation, that's for sure, but not to hide truths. There has to be 'truth and reconciliation' for people to know that cycling is safe with UCI. Clearly, there are people like Kimmage who doubt that.

I'm reminded of the story of how Pierre Ballister (I think it was he) fell out of love with cycling. It was when witnessing a TdF mountain stage finish. Ballister (or whoever it was) was amongst a number of journalists/followers that day that realised a different game was being played. Some of those people turned their backs on cycling from that day. Others have wanted their sport back since. Either way, they were probably gutted.

I clearly have no idea whether Kimmage's opinions or Landis' allegations have any substance whatsoever but I don't think anyone should be afraid of them nor be prevented from speculating. Personally speaking, I think there's a case to answer.

 

[Aperitif]

Great, now I have that song in my head....

It's on her latest EP (o dear)

 

[Smokin Joe]

Don't forget that Kimmage has been there, done that, and seen what goes on. He's not just another journo with a different angle, but someone who turned pro with high ideals and had them shattered by the realities of the sport.

Incidentley, the number of people who have died in the last twenty years directly as a result of having used EPO is well into double figures, so covering it up and hoping no-one will notice is not an option.

 

[adscrim]

You would think from his statements that LA was responsible for all the doping that occurs in cycling - calling him 'the cancer' takes it a bit far. If LA was doping at the time, then he didn't get caught and I believe it should be left at that. If samples were available, should we be checking all of Merckx wins to see if he was clean for all of them?

 

[rich p]

You would think from his statements that LA was responsible for all the doping that occurs in cycling - calling him 'the cancer' takes it a bit far. If LA was doping at the time, then he didn't get caught and I believe it should be left at that. If samples were available, should we be checking all of Merckx wins to see if he was clean for all of them?

You seem to have overlooked that Armstrong is still racing!

 

[iAmiAdam]

So, we've established something that we all truly knew he was doing anyway?

 

[adscrim]

You seem to have overlooked that Armstrong is still racing!

And so still being tested and I assume still providing clean samples. Why does that fact he's still racing change how we should view past events?

I should add that I'm no particular fan of LA. Whether the current action comes to anything, he will always be guilty be association anyway. However, he did win 7 tours. Either he won those doped up while racing doped cyclists or he won them clean while racing doped cyclists. Whichever it was, I still think it's pretty impressive. I would prefer it (vastly) if I knew that the winners in a sport which I enjoy watching and participating in were clean, but I know that there will always be those who recognise they're not as good as the guy they're drafting and will do something to counter that. It's a shame but that's what doping controls are for.