Paramo gear.....

[Time Waster]

The whole point is that Paramo is not waterproof just that it wicks sweat and actively moves moisture from inside to the outside better than almost anything. The thickness of the liner layer helps with giving the point at which it gets overwhelmed at bay for longer. But it is possible to overwhelm any variant of paramo.

On the flip side is what does the alternative do? They stop all water getting into the garment so are waterproof, but they do not do anything with moisture inside the garment. Long before you would get wet with a paramo you get wet in hardshell membrane garments from internal moisture when in use. IF the hardshell does have special weaves on the inner layer ot move sweat outwards that sweat / moisture can not get to the outside because the outer layer has high moisture content by then so there is no driver to force the moisture through the membrane and outside the outer layer. Boil in the bag ensues as there is no bulk to the lining that can take moisture build up.

So the real choice is not warm and dry vs wet and warm but is is wet and warm in paramo vs wet and warm in membrane fabrics. However it is possible to be dry and warm in paramo for longer than you are dry and warm in membranes. IF that makes sense. There is basically no solution that truly works in heavy and prolonged rain. So there is the matter of what is comfortable when the system fails (paramo and membranes). IMHO I would rather be in a paramo even the lighter versions than membranes for the sole reason that paramo dries you out so much quicker when it stops raining. I have been totally wet in paramo and eVent and Goretex. However once it stops raining you have no choice but to take off the membrane to dryout. With Paramo you dry quicker by wearing it than taking it off. That to me shows the advantages.

Of course the standard analogy system is better than the light ones if you want to be drier for longer and recover quicker. If you are happy being wet and warm then light might be ok for you.

 

[MichaelW2]

The Valez was my commuter jacket for many years. You can wear it in wet or dry, it breathes like a windproof not goretex. In heavy rain it keeps me comfortable and dries rapidly.
I took one on my North Sea cycle route up to Norway, and wore it from Sept to Oct through some days of hard rain.

Do you get wrong 'uns that dont work, or is it personal taste? The lightweigh ones are not really ready for winter rain. I like the multisport style std weight.

 

[Hicky]

Alta iii bought second hand barely used(the guy said he's put on lbs and it no longer fits, to be fair to him he overstated things) for a 1/3rd of the price new. I've since put it to the test walking the pooch in torrential rain and it needs reproofing as it wetted out almost instantly, I oddly was dry inside. I can now pass on my boil in the bag to son no1.

 

[Profpointy]

Even a neglected Paramo which seemingly soaks through, somehow I find I am still dry on the inside.

Another alternative, though more practical for proper hillwalking rather than going to the shops, is the buffalo "shirt". Basically it a fairly cheap fleece material bonded to a layer of thin nylon akin to sleeping back material. It is not per se, waterproof at all, yet worn next to the skin (their recommendation) or more sensibly over a thin synthetic top so you're not bare chested if you get hot and want to take it off, somehow the temperature differential between inside and out keeps you dry inside. One of those things with ridiculous hype in their blurb but actually lives up to their rather outlandish claims. I do find an anorak over the top helps if it is truly pissing down or if you stop, (more for extra warmth than waterproofing) but for sleet and medium-heavy rain it really does work. It looks a bit silly as a pub jacket other than in the Clachaig in Glencoe, but is great on the hills in winter.

In a similar vein for cycling I prefer a windproof fleece top to an actual waterproof even in heavy rain. As you're active and generating heat, the inside stays fairly dry against the skin even if the outside is soaked. Synthetics don't absorb much water in any case

 

[alicat]

I love my Paramo jacket for walking. The previous one fell out of my car into a layby and was probably run over every 30 minutes by HGVs for 16 hours and it was still waterproof and basically only a little less cosmetically appealing when I retrieved it.

 

[MichaelW2]

Even a neglected Paramo which seemingly soaks through, somehow I find I am still dry on the inside.

Another alternative, though more practical for proper hillwalking rather than going to the shops, is the buffalo "shirt". Basically it a fairly cheap fleece material bonded to a layer of thin nylon akin to sleeping back material. It is not per se, waterproof at all, yet worn next to the skin (their recommendation) or more sensibly over a thin synthetic top so you're not bare chested if you get hot and want to take it off, somehow the temperature differential between inside and out keeps you dry inside. One of those things with ridiculous hype in their blurb but actually lives up to their rather outlandish claims. I do find an anorak over the top helps if it is truly pissing down or if you stop, (more for extra warmth than waterproofing) but for sleet and medium-heavy rain it really does work. It looks a bit silly as a pub jacket other than in the Clachaig in Glencoe, but is great on the hills in winter.

In a similar vein for cycling I prefer a windproof fleece top to an actual waterproof even in heavy rain. As you're active and generating heat, the inside stays fairly dry against the skin even if the outside is soaked. Synthetics don't absorb much water in any case

I tried their lightweight cycling jacket but it was cut for a long armed gibbon.
The fleece in Buffalo is a pile, with a non fleecy side ( like a carpet!), on the pertex side. The original Helly Hansen jackets were pile, lighter more hardwraring and more insulating than fleece

 

[SpokeyDokey]

Even a neglected Paramo which seemingly soaks through, somehow I find I am still dry on the inside.

Another alternative, though more practical for proper hillwalking rather than going to the shops, is the buffalo "shirt". Basically it a fairly cheap fleece material bonded to a layer of thin nylon akin to sleeping back material. It is not per se, waterproof at all, yet worn next to the skin (their recommendation) or more sensibly over a thin synthetic top so you're not bare chested if you get hot and want to take it off, somehow the temperature differential between inside and out keeps you dry inside. One of those things with ridiculous hype in their blurb but actually lives up to their rather outlandish claims. I do find an anorak over the top helps if it is truly pissing down or if you stop, (more for extra warmth than waterproofing) but for sleet and medium-heavy rain it really does work. It looks a bit silly as a pub jacket other than in the Clachaig in Glencoe, but is great on the hills in winter.

In a similar vein for cycling I prefer a windproof fleece top to an actual waterproof even in heavy rain. As you're active and generating heat, the inside stays fairly dry against the skin even if the outside is soaked. Synthetics don't absorb much water in any case

Mrs SD has a Buffalo Special 6 (+ hood, extra!).

Great for very cold weather. Especially if standing about.

She hardly wears it tbh as she overheats in it very quickly when on the move.

 

[Hicky]

I used a buffalo all be it the snugpak variety for 19 years in the army. It died one year before my time was up, full of sniper tape holding it together and was hardly pile any longer and more like bum fluff! I bought a Montane extreme as a replacement. It's too warm to do anything in beyond meandering with the dog on the flat. I'll probably flog it as it doesn't pack down very well and isn't cool enough for the pub!

 

[Profpointy]

I used a buffalo all be it the snugpak variety for 19 years in the army. It died one year before my time was up, full of sniper tape holding it together and was hardly pile any longer and more like bum fluff! I bought a Montane extreme as a replacement. It's too warm to do anything in beyond meandering with the dog on the flat. I'll probably flog it as it doesn't pack down very well and isn't cool enough for the pub!

Their original "mountain shirt" which was medium thin, actually suited me better than the slightly heavier one I replaced it with. I ruined the first one as I wore it as extra warmth caving but without an oversuit over it. It's tough enough for regular hill use but not as a caving outer layer. The heavier one is slightly too warm - I bought it as it had a tougher outer layer. it there was no need really