Paper Helmets

[Dan B]

But the real test is the "supermarket test": how many bikes do you see parked outside the supermarket

A supermarket trip would be the last trip I'd want to make by bike. Disregarding the point upthread about where the supermarkets are located, to get a fortnights worth of groceries for a family onto the back of a bike requires one or more of: very careful choice of groceries (no economy packs of nappies or toilet paper), very careful packing, or non-traditional luggage options on the bike (e.g. a trailer or cargo bike). While I'd love to see it happen, I think there are probably easier wins to be made in replacing the one-occupant no-luggage car trips with bike trips before we start looking at the supermarket run

 

[ufkacbln]

.... also don't forget the different cultures that affect Supermarket and local shop use.

I find that cyclists tend to shop more locally and use specific shops.

I know that I buy my bread from a baker, my meat from a butcher and most produce locally. I then have a supermarket run with one of the cargo bikes at the weekend.

At least part of the lower number of cyclists at Supermarkets is shopping style

 

[Nigel-YZ1]

Is the paper helmet biodegradable?
Buy one, and by the time this thread ends it's disappeared

 

[ufkacbln]

Most cyclists can manage a weekly shop with a trailer and panniers.

I can manage a weekly shop and a mobility scooter in the Christiania!

 

[Wobblers]

They're clearly useless, what else is there to say really?

Bit chilly this morning, bright start with some fog rolling in late morning. You?

Surprisingly bright and pleasant day, really. I got waylaid at the lights by a very fast woman who zipped straight past me, executed a very neat left turn right in front of me and shot off up Wolverhampton Road. All before I had the chance to put foot to pedal when the lights changed. I was so surprised I didn't even manage to spot what sort of bike she was on!

Edit: to allay any accusations of being off topic, I'd like to point out that she wasn't wearing a helmet either

 

[Wobblers]

A supermarket trip would be the last trip I'd want to make by bike. Disregarding the point upthread about where the supermarkets are located, to get a fortnights worth of groceries for a family onto the back of a bike requires one or more of: very careful choice of groceries (no economy packs of nappies or toilet paper), very careful packing, or non-traditional luggage options on the bike (e.g. a trailer or cargo bike). While I'd love to see it happen, I think there are probably easier wins to be made in replacing the one-occupant no-luggage car trips with bike trips before we start looking at the supermarket run

Panniers, Dan, panniers. Wonderful things. And bluntly, using a bike to transport things back from the shop is a damn sight better than juggling umpteen carrier bags on foot (which will inevitably split and spill something heavy - and fragile - on your foot). Not everyone has a car, after all. This automatic assumption that you must have car so that you can do your shopping is yet another symptom of society's unhealthy fixation with the motorcar.

 

[srw]

There is certainly a culture of commuting by bike in London. One that is conspicuous by its absence in Birmingham, or Glasgow. Though I have noticed an increase in the number of cyclists I've seen in both cities over the past few years. But the real test is the "supermarket test": how many bikes do you see parked outside the supermarket? It's a rare day that I see more another besides my own in Glasgow or Brum. Perhaps someone could comment on what it's like in London? We'll have a culture of utility cycling when there's as many bikes in the supermarket car park as cars...

Commuting - a journey done in order to get somewhere specific - is probably the ultimate utility journey, and one that many people do 10 times a week. To focus on supermarkets is probably a red herring.

I don't have the figures to hand (partially here: http://www.theguardian.com/business...-gloom-retailers-profits-poor-christmas-sales) but my memory of the reports of recent sales figures is that big out-of-town supermarkets are beginning to lose their lustre - instead new development is around local little supermarkets and home delivery services. My best guess is that London is ahead of the rest of the country in that regard - people shop during their lunch hours for boring stuff (within 5 minutes of my office there are 2 Sainsbury's and a Tesco as well as numerous more specialised shops), have the heavy stuff delivered, and pop into the shops on the way home for the interesting stuff. Depending on taste or whim that might be on foot or on the bike, and might well be at the station - of the five mainline stations I use regularly for my various commutes, 3 have got (mini) supermarkets attached.

Don't forget that, in London, all those Bromptons disappear off the streets and don't get left locked up outside.

To be fair, I did see one locked up outside TK Maxx yesterday. It was a rare enough sight that I noticed it specifically.

 

[User482]

Panniers, Dan, panniers. Wonderful things. And bluntly, using a bike to transport things back from the shop is a damn sight better than juggling umpteen carrier bags on foot (which will inevitably split and spill something heavy - and fragile - on your foot). Not everyone has a car, after all. This automatic assumption that you must have car so that you can do your shopping is yet another symptom of society's unhealthy fixation with the motorcar.

Panniers are very useful for carrying a few items, but the weekly family shop? Not a chance. However, for those who do a large weekly or fortnightly shop at the supermarket, why on earth don't you get it delivered instead?

We do the shopping on foot mostly - the greengrocer delivers for free, we carry the meat and other groceries in rucksacks, and the basket under the pram takes a surprisingly large number of wine bottles...

We do still use the car periodically for bulk buying though.

 

[Dan B]

Panniers are very useful for carrying a few items, but the weekly family shop? Not a chance. However, for those who do a large weekly or fortnightly shop at the supermarket, why on earth don't you get it delivered instead?

Personally that's exactly what I do. But I don't lock my bike up outside the supermarket while I wait at home for its delivery, so this is not going to influence the "supermarket test" as defined upthread.

 

[User482]

Personally that's exactly what I do. But I don't lock my bike up outside the supermarket while I wait at home for its delivery, so this is not going to influence the "supermarket test" as defined upthread.

Supermarkets are designed around the car...I wonder if a more useful test would be bikes on high streets. Certainly, where I live quite a lot of people do their food shopping at local independent shops, and go on foot or by bike.

 

[User482]

TMN to me.

So it is!

 

[MacB]

@McWobble - the culture of utility cycling is well on its way in London, particularly amongst the cash-strapped young. Ordinary people going on their ordinary commutes to ordinary jobs. Of the four or five (I've lost count) regular cyclists in my office, I'm the only one who does it at the weekend. On the other hand, I'm also the only one who wears a suit not lycra and doesn't wear a helmet for the trip.

How you take that beyond London and get that four or five up to 9 or 10 I don't know - I suspect you just sit and wait for a few years.

Expanding on Adrians mention of Bromptons not being left outside, I genuinely think theft/fear of theft is one of the biggest barriers to utility cycling. Even if you take extreme measures to safeguard your steed there's still the threat of vandalism. I suffered so badly from theft anxiety that I went looking for a folder so that it could come in the shop/office with me.

Until people feel as safe leaving a bike outside as they do a car then I can't see utility cycling catching on.

 

[ianrauk]

When I am shopping with my bike I take 2 fairly hefty D-Locks but still get the heebie jeebies leaving the bike for even only a few minutes.

OK on a Saturday, even in Orpington believe it or not, there are a good few bikes chained up to the pavement stands. But you know that if anyone has a go at 'arf inching a bike, even in broad daylight, no one is going to bat an eyelid.

 

[Dogtrousers]

Expanding on Adrians mention of Bromptons not being left outside, I genuinely think theft/fear of theft is one of the biggest barriers to utility cycling. Even if you take extreme measures to safeguard your steed there's still the threat of vandalism. I suffered so badly from theft anxiety that I went looking for a folder so that it could come in the shop/office with me.

Until people feel as safe leaving a bike outside as they do a car then I can't see utility cycling catching on.

Agree.

I'm not a utility cyclist (recreational only) and this does play a part.

If I want to nip to PC World for some ink cartridges, say, then I'll walk it (about a mile each way), rather than leave my bike outside.

Other factors are: I like walking; I have a travelcard so train/bus costs me nothing extra over my commute costs; I don't do many journeys that could practically be done by bike.

 

[dellzeqq]

I've not got a problem leaving the Brompton outside Waitrose - it's in good company. The supermarket is right on CS7 so the racks are often full. A big carrier on the rack, and two smaller bags on the handlebars probably add up to about 20kg of shopping.

And….it's invaluable for trips up to three miles for smaller loads. If I have to buy a ream of paper a mile from home, it's a twenty minute round trip.