Ok, what's with discs?

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subaqua

What’s the point
Location
Leytonstone
I have hydraulic disc brakes on my MTB. I use it as a commuter and they have saved my skin a few times when I have needed the extra stopping power, usually when a ped on a mobile steps out without looking 2 ft in front of you. the backward step into the ropad is a classic manouvere.
 
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Xiorell

Über Member
Location
Merthyr, Wales
OK I'm sold.

Went over some rough downhill terrain today and the V-Brakes just fizzled out around 20mph or so, just couldn't stop me in a hurry.
 

Andy_R

Hard of hearing..I said Herd of Herring..oh FFS..
Location
County Durham
I was a bit of a brake luddite too, until I tried them. To stop a fat lad on a bike going down that 'orrible little hill inbetween Garrigill and Nenthead takes some serious doing. Mass x Momentum = Stopped by Shimano XTR :thumbsup:
 

Muddy Ground

New Member
Went over some rough downhill terrain today and the V-Brakes just fizzled out around 20mph or so, just couldn't stop me in a hurry.

V-brakes have always been a bit pants on mountain bikes. I can remember many a situation as you describe - and this back in the day when everybody was going on about how good they were! Utter tosh. The only contenders are Magura hydraulic rim brakes; they are good.

If you can, spend a bit more and get some hydraulics. Apart from wearing out pads, they are generally fit and forget items. Just don't believe the hype that you need massive discs to get the job done; 160mm rear, 180mm front is enough for the UK.

Good luck!

www.muddyground.blogspot.com
 

yashicamat

New Member
Although there is a power advantage of disc brakes over rim brakes, I find the single biggest benefit is the modulation. I can feather the brakes right on the limit of traction on very very steep ground far more easily with discs than I ever could with rim brakes, yet still have bags of power in reserve if I let go for a few seconds and get some speed up.
 

tradesecrets

Senior Member
Main issue that nobody has mentioned thus ...

What kind of brake is actually more cost effective long term ....and actually offers better value for money

Cantilever brakes are easier to fit and less messing about

disc brakes .. -- may work a treat but replacing the disc and brake pads will cost more than buying pads for Cantilevers fact plus the mineral oil ..
 

Globalti

Legendary Member
Main issue that nobody has mentioned thus ...

What kind of brake is actually more cost effective long term ....and actually offers better value for money

Cantilever brakes are easier to fit and less messing about

disc brakes .. -- may work a treat but replacing the disc and brake pads will cost more than buying pads for Cantilevers fact plus the mineral oil ..

I disagree. Using cantis then Vs I was changing my rims every year, I got to be pretty good at taping the new rim alongside the old then transferring the spokes over and re-trueing. At that time a new rim was £50. I'm now running the same rims on early Hope hubs that I bought second hand when I went over to Hope Mini discs about 8 - 10 years ago.

Setting up discs is pretty easy; the hardest bit is aligning the caliper with the disc and getting the disc running straight. Once this has been done they are fit and forget. I use a Reba fork and a rigid carbon fork on my MTB and amazingly the same combination of spacer washers even works on both forks, so changing the fork is a doddle. Cutting hydraulic pipes and bleeding are easy as well if you read up on it first. Once you've set them up you only need to change the pads and give everything a bit of a clean up once a year. Compare this with the ballache of setting V brakes up, contacting the rim right, toed in to prevent squeal, then realigning half way through their life... a constant pain in the jacksie especially when riding competitively in wet gritty terrain and wearing out a set in one day. Admittedly there's a roughly 100gms per wheel weight penalty with discs but it's worth it.

For XC riding 160mm discs are all you need, as Zoiders warns, the tension with a 180mm disc can pull your QR right out of the dropouts in extreme braking.

I use a standard pad for my front brake and sintered for the rear, which operates in wetter muddier conditions. The standard pads brake a little better than the sintered, which are also quite noisy.

After around 8 years the discs are barely worn, pads are designed softer so they wear in preference to the discs.

Contaminated pads can be cleaned by popping them in the dishwasher.
 

Zoiders

New Member
Main issue that nobody has mentioned thus ...

What kind of brake is actually more cost effective long term ....and actually offers better value for money

Cantilever brakes are easier to fit and less messing about

disc brakes .. -- may work a treat but replacing the disc and brake pads will cost more than buying pads for Cantilevers fact plus the mineral oil ..
Service intervals.

For actual real off road use the service intervals with a disc brake are far less, try exposing a V or Canti to the same use and you will be eating through pads on a regular basis and having to go back through the toe in set up again and again. Cables - hydraulics are a closed system and not vulnerable to dirt and water ingress like wire brake cables are.
 

hotmetal

Senior Member
Location
Near Windsor
On my mountainbikes I've had all sorts over the years:

On the front of my old Saracen there were normal cantis, which had little power or modulation. The back had a 'u-brake' which was as rubbish as normal cantis, but also located under the chainstays where all the mud seemed to end up.

My Cannondale ST had cantis on the front and an odd Suntour Rollercam system which was kind of better than v-brakes, and predated them too, but never caught on because the braze-ons had to be in a non-standard position. This was actually a pretty good brake – too good for the back wheel in those days, except for the fact that it would also clog with mud if you went riding in sticky clay (but that's true of any bike to a greater or lesser extent, yet strangely doesn't affect my front wheel on the Lefty fork!).
:laugh:

My Rocky Mountain Element had Vs at both ends - they offered better braking than cantis but were useless in mud or wet, which is a major flaw for anyone mountainbiking in the UK. Not to mention the rim and block wear! Even in the dry though they were not powerful enough: I remember chasing a couple of lads on full sussers with discs across the alps. I got to the top first every time but simply couldn't hold the speeds coming down because I lacked the stopping power, and my forearms and fingers hurt more than my legs by the time I got down. In summary, Vs are ok for light duty but not the best for serious sport, and as someone posted earlier, they can be too abrupt for beginners - some 'granny' bikes came with Vs, but they had a cam system fitted to make locking up the front wheel more difficult.

I also had a Canyon (German brand) which had the legendary Magura HS33 hydraulic rim brakes that MG mentioned above. These really are the dogs danglies of rim brakes, but sadly the usual caveat of grit and mud and rim/block wear applies. Fantastic brakes though – made me reappraise what rim brakes were capable of.

The Cannondale Jekyll has got Magura Marta hydraulic discs. Again, only 160mm rotors, believe me that's enough for most trails in the UK on an XC/All Mtn bike - only DHers with heavy bikes on serious trail centre courses really need more. The modulation is spot on, if you want to launch yourself over the bars you would have the power available, but they offer so much feel you just wouldn't - even in a panic. Servicing-wise it's not a huge consideration - yes, good disc brake systems aren't cheap to buy but running costs I would say are comparable - a disc lasts for years unless you bend it, a set of pads lasts longer than a set of v-brake blocks, costs about £15 and doesn't need fettling. No cables to replace, etc etc so are easy to maintain. Plus your rims don't get ground away every time you use them in bad weather.

I did have a problem of mine going spongy once, but got a competent LBS mechanic (who I happen to ride with!) to bleed them and they're like new. Only cost £15 for the bleed. I did once bend a disc in an accident, Magura discs are a bit dearer than Shimano ones (£35 IIRC) but even this was cheaper than the rim wear I used to suffer. Discs therefore are well worth the money if you're serious about off-road, but are a bit overkill for road.

Below is a pic of the Rollercam brake - a bit of nostalgia! This bike also had a 24" back wheel and 26" front as standard. It's a 1988 Cannondale - fully rigid in those days.

c0b164120136aa77c5369a4124f97726a73c2ff9.jpg
 

Muddy Ground

New Member
Surely the size of the rotor used is not dependent upon the use of a quick release or otherwise; my Magura forks are rated to 210mm and are quickies. Check the rating of the fork?

Hydraulic discs every time on a mountain bike these days. Anything else is just second best. V-brakes I can remember toeing in at the start of a ride, again half way through, then still being annoyed over their lack of power and squealing noise when used.

www.muddyground.blogspot.com
 

Globalti

Legendary Member
I once wrecked a rim in about ten seconds when riding through slushy snow; the brake block picked up a piece of stone, the brakes and rims were clogged with ice and I held the rear brake on hard to try to warm it up and dry it out. There was a terrible grinding noise then a few seconds later there was a bang and most of the rim peeled outwards like a long spring allowing the tube to explode. On examination I found that the stone had machined its way through the braking surface leaving a deep groove, along which the rim split open. Another fifty quid down the drain.
 

ColinJ

Puzzle game procrastinator!
I once wrecked a rim in about ten seconds when riding through slushy snow; the brake block picked up a piece of stone, the brakes and rims were clogged with ice and I held the rear brake on hard to try to warm it up and dry it out. There was a terrible grinding noise then a few seconds later there was a bang and most of the rim peeled outwards like a long spring allowing the tube to explode. On examination I found that the stone had machined its way through the braking surface leaving a deep groove, along which the rim split open. Another fifty quid down the drain.
Ouch!

I destroyed a rim when I overestimated how long my brake blocks would last on a wet, gritty winter ride. One pair of blocks wore out on a fast descent. I had no option but to continue braking despite the horrendous noises coming from the rim as the brake shoes wore through it. The rim didn't explode but it was worn out and cracking when I looked at it at the bottom of the hill. I lowered the tyre pressure and managed to limp home but after that the wheel was no longer safe to ride.

Compare the price of a pair of v-brake blocks to a new rim and wheel rebuild; it was an expensive mistake to make!
 
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