Obesity

[Reynard]

Of course the hard bit can be getting this good food into the hands of those who need it most.
Its tricky to persuade very low income households that this good stuff is for them too, even if the price is within reach .

We have to tread carefully, so as not to come over prescriptive 'nanny knows best' .
And show and tell how to use this stuff, for those who didn't grow up with it.

But the advantages to health, and social outcomes have been proven, when regular fresh food gets into more economically deprived areas.

It's all down to education again, isn't it?

One of the interesting points that came out of the "Hugh's Fat Fight" series that aired a couple of years ago was that in lower income areas, one of the main reasons people bought fewer vegetables was the fact that they didn't really know what to do with them.

It's the old "teach a man to fish" thing...

Something like the old "Food Facts" leaflets that the Ministry of Food did during WW2 would be ideal - well, a modern version thereof. They taught people about what was available cheaply and in season, what to do with it etc. And, of course, get the little 'uns taught at school and stuff.

 

[mudsticks]

It's all down to education again, isn't it?

One of the interesting points that came out of the "Hugh's Fat Fight" series that aired a couple of years ago was that in lower income areas, one of the main reasons people bought fewer vegetables was the fact that they didn't really know what to do with them.

It's the old "teach a man to fish" thing...

Something like the old "Food Facts" leaflets that the Ministry of Food did during WW2 would be ideal - well, a modern version thereof. They taught people about what was available cheaply and in season, what to do with it etc. And, of course, get the little 'uns taught at school and stuff.

Yup I agree, education is a big part of it for sure, and there are lots of good hearted people out there getting involved in community initiatives.

And much more could be done in schools, and school food could be a lot better.

In some places provision is good, others not so much.

Other countries have far higher standards around public procurement, and institutional food.

But things like poor housing, and household incomes near impossible to live on are also in there too.

You need some facilities, time and a budget to create healthy and tasty meals.

Not everyone has those, sadly.

 

[Blue Hills]

By some mysterious process (a stray google news alert - i don't have an alert on donuts) this arrived in my inbox from a place with even more of a problem than us this very morning.
National Doughnut day?
https://eu.palmbeachpost.com/story/...-beach-countys-nude-doughnut-shop/7531451002/

 

[Reynard]

By some mysterious process (a stray google news alert - i don't have an alert on donuts) this arrived in my inbox from a place with even more of a problem than us this very morning.
National Doughnut day?
https://eu.palmbeachpost.com/story/...-beach-countys-nude-doughnut-shop/7531451002/

 

[winjim]

By some mysterious process (a stray google news alert - i don't have an alert on donuts) this arrived in my inbox from a place with even more of a problem than us this very morning.
National Doughnut day?
https://eu.palmbeachpost.com/story/...-beach-countys-nude-doughnut-shop/7531451002/

You don't have an alert on doughnuts...

 

[Reynard]

Yup I agree, education is a big part of it for sure, and there are lots of good hearted people out there getting involved in community initiatives.

And much more could be done in schools, and school food could be a lot better.

In some places provision is good, others not so much.

Other countries have far higher standards around public procurement, and institutional food.

But things like poor housing, and household incomes near impossible to live on are also in there too.

You need some facilities, time and a budget to create healthy and tasty meals.

Not everyone has those, sadly.

What you say just underlines how much has to change - everywhere - in order to start tackling the issue. Recent government initiatives are no more than a sparkly sticking plaster that look good but don't really address the underlying problems.

 

[Milzy]

It's all down to education again, isn't it?

One of the interesting points that came out of the "Hugh's Fat Fight" series that aired a couple of years ago was that in lower income areas, one of the main reasons people bought fewer vegetables was the fact that they didn't really know what to do with them.

It's the old "teach a man to fish" thing...

Something like the old "Food Facts" leaflets that the Ministry of Food did during WW2 would be ideal - well, a modern version thereof. They taught people about what was available cheaply and in season, what to do with it etc. And, of course, get the little 'uns taught at school and stuff.

It’s not all education. There’s so many highly educated people who are fat & so many wealthy people who can afford their own healthy chefs but they are still greedy fat bar-stewards.

 

[Reynard]

It’s not all education. There’s so many highly educated people who are fat & so many wealthy people who can afford their own healthy chefs but they are still greedy fat bar-stewards.

Maybe it's not just about getting the message across, but actually making it stick.

I think we're all guilty of ignoring good advice at times. It's part of being Human.

 

[AuroraSaab]

It's a bit of everything, I reckon. Lots of people don't know how to cook from scratch, but it's easy to learn. Trouble is, convenience food is quicker, often cheaper, and often pretty scrummy. It's also widely available.

As a child we didn't routinely have puddings after tea - cakes were expensive and, unless my mum baked, Soreen was the nearest we got. Nowadays fancy cakes and puds are cheaper than buying an apple so it's not surprising our willpower fails us so much of the time.

I read a book by Gary Taubes, called something like Why We Are Fat. He makes the point that the obesity issue began in the 60's and 70's when food producers struck on the idea of ultra palatability - they realised that the combination of high sugar, high fat, and salt in processed foods made them really, really palatable, almost to the point of addiction. Thus it went from just a donut to a cream-filled, chocolate dipped, sprinkle covered donut. And mass production made these foods really cheap, especially in America.

Unless we go back to making 'real' food cheaper than processed food I think it's going to remain a challenge to get people to stick to healthy eating. The benefit is a rational, long term one, whereas eating a huge Costco muffin is an emotional decision with immediate gratification.

 

[Blue Hills]

I read a book by Gary Taubes, called something like Why We Are Fat. He makes the point that the obesity issue began in the 60's and 70's when food producers struck on the idea of ultra palatability - they realised that the combination of high sugar, high fat, and salt in processed foods made them really, really palatable, almost to the point of addiction.

Quite - haven't read the book but undoubtedly true.
And despite this some on the thread are maintaining that the big food companies discovered/struck on no such thing.
My mum - sort of came of age as an adult/parent in the 60s after a younger life lived in austerity (lasted a bloody long time in britain if you count the 30s/the war/rationing into the 50s) lives on junk, or tries to, seems to have an almost religious faith in the wonder of manufactured gubbins.

 

[lazybloke]

....whereas eating a huge Costco muffin is an emotional decision with immediate gratification.

OMG, those Costco Danish pastries are mahoosive too. My better half brought back a tray of them from a recent shopping trip, which is odd because she never eats such snacks normally.

They're now individually wrapped and frozen. Once a week we defrost one and share it over morning coffee. I reckon that pack will last 2-3 months as long as I don't get greedy - that is the risk.

 

[mudsticks]

It's a bit of everything, I reckon. Lots of people don't know how to cook from scratch, but it's easy to learn. Trouble is, convenience food is quicker, often cheaper, and often pretty scrummy. It's also widely available.

As a child we didn't routinely have puddings after tea - cakes were expensive and, unless my mum baked, Soreen was the nearest we got. Nowadays fancy cakes and puds are cheaper than buying an apple so it's not surprising our willpower fails us so much of the time.

I read a book by Gary Taubes, called something like Why We Are Fat. He makes the point that the obesity issue began in the 60's and 70's when food producers struck on the idea of ultra palatability - they realised that the combination of high sugar, high fat, and salt in processed foods made them really, really palatable, almost to the point of addiction. Thus it went from just a donut to a cream-filled, chocolate dipped, sprinkle covered donut. And mass production made these foods really cheap, especially in America.

Unless we go back to making 'real' food cheaper than processed food I think it's going to remain a challenge to get people to stick to healthy eating. The benefit is a rational, long term one, whereas eating a huge Costco muffin is an emotional decision with immediate gratification.

Corn syrup - the overproduction of it in the States was a big driver in kickstarting the 'obesity epidemic' - Its production was subsidised - there was too much of it and manufacturers were encouraged to put it in everything.

Of course then people became used to everything tasting that sweet.

Of course it wasn't / isn't the only cause.

But it is undoubtedly the case, that much, if not all of our 'cheap and convenient- 'instant gratification' food also happens to be high calorie and also happens to be the product of industrialised agriculture ..

Its no conspiracy, or underhand dealing by food manufacturers they're just operating in a market that rewards them with profit for producing as cheaply as possible, and selling as high volumes as possible.

They're just 'doing business'

Turning that around so we have healthier diets is going to take some effort and concerted will on all our parts.

Unfortunately 'will power' around food is in somewhat short supply for many of us.

We're programmed by our hunter gatherer instincts to maximise calorie intake, minimise movement

 

[AuroraSaab]

OMG, those Costco Danish pastries are mahoosive too.

Anything from the Costco bakery is the food of the gods. I don't eat the muffins because I'm outfaced by that volume of food, but the brownies are probably the best I've ever eaten and the scones are really nice too. We always say we'll freeze them but they somehow never make it to the freezer. I often end up giving some to friends and neighbours just to stop me eating them all.

Corn syrup - the overproduction of it in the States was a big driver in kickstarting the 'obesity epidemic' - Its production was subsidised - there was too much of it and manufacturers were encouraged to put it in everything.

Of course then people became used to everything tasting that sweet.

I think Taubes's book mentions corn syrup. It's in everything over there. There's also the issue of how powerful the farming lobby and food manufacturers are in the States. They have such a lot of influence on policy that getting regs changed seems near impossible. Plus the US has that whole freedom to eat what you like and anti-Nanny-State attitude.

My friends who have family in the States say fast food is really cheap there at the moment and many families only use the kitchen for breakfast, eating out most nights. I guess because they don't have a NHS the cost of obesity isn't borne by the State as much as over here so there is less incentive to address it.

 

[mudsticks]

I think Taubes's book mentions corn syrup. It's in everything over there. There's also the issue of how powerful the farming lobby and food manufacturers are in the States. They have such a lot of influence on policy that getting regs changed seems near impossible. Plus the US has that whole freedom to eat what you like and anti-Nanny-State attitude.

My friends who have family in the States say fast food is really cheap there at the moment and many families only use the kitchen for breakfast, eating out most nights. I guess because they don't have a NHS the cost of obesity isn't borne by the State as much as over here so there is less incentive to address it.

Yup and our eating habits aren't so far behind.

Add in to that, the free access to our markets by the likes of the US with this hyper cheap, but low nutrition food..

Hmm, where will we be in 5 or 20 years time.??

But it's difficult to steer things in a healthier direction without coming over all puritanical, 'fun sponge'

Fresh veg and fruit production receives very little if any gov support in this country.

Unless we start addressing that, and find ways of getting more of the good stuff into peoples plates it's not looking great for the health of the nation.

I grew up eating lots of fresh veg from the family garden and allotment, my kids did too.


So a diet high in veg (not vegetarian) is the norm round these parts.

Its not like we never have any other treats, or whatever, but we're so full up on veg and other healthier food by the time a piece of cake or chocolate is on offer, that it's easier to do the moderation thing with all that..

Plus of course growing lots of veg to sell, is fairly strenuous / good for burning calories too...

 

[Reynard]

Yup and our eating habits aren't so far behind.

Add in to that, the free access to our markets by the likes of the US with this hyper cheap, but low nutrition food..

Hmm, where will we be in 5 or 20 years time.??

But it's difficult to steer things in a healthier direction without coming over all puritanical, 'fun sponge'

Fresh veg and fruit production receives very little if any gov support in this country.

Unless we start addressing that, and find ways of getting more of the good stuff into peoples plates it's not looking great for the health of the nation.

I grew up eating lots of fresh veg from the family garden and allotment, my kids did too.


So a diet high in veg (not vegetarian) is the norm round these parts.

Its not like we never have any other treats, or whatever, but we're so full up on veg and other healthier food by the time a piece of cake or chocolate is on offer, that it's easier to do the moderation thing with all that..

Plus of course growing lots of veg to sell, is fairly strenuous / good for burning calories too...

I dunno... Healthy food doesn't have to be boring or puritanical. Although alas, that seems to be the perception of it. I do think this perception has to be tackled, and that includes coming down hard on the charlatans who peddle all sorts of whacky diets and detoxes and things like that. It just skews what people think of as healthy.

But I totally get what you say about the cakes and desserts. When you've had a proper meal, there's no way you can wedge in pudding as well. Well, maybe some fruit. I had half a punnet of raspberries after my supper.

Which was a home made salmon quiche (steamed salmon, fresh dill, lemon, pepper, eggs, half fat creme fraiche, grana padano cheese and a pastry base) plus some lovely sliced tomatoes and buttered leeks on the side.