No helmet

[Spin City]

Mr Paul

The example I descibe above is a hypothetical scenario. I don't know whether an employer could or couldn't enforce the 'rule' I was describing.

I only used this example of helmet compulsion to see how those in the 'pro-choice' lobby would respond to its introduction. If you are, in fact, 'pro-choice' and your view is representative then the introduction of helmet compulsion may possibly cause problems.

However, I think that the helmet compulsion that applies in, say, triathlons is always abided by because of penalties of not sticking to the rules.

I also think that the introduction of helmet compulsion for motorcyclists was accepted by them without too many problems. There may, of course, be motorcyclists who gave up because of the helmet compulsion and also there may have been some potential new starters who never did start because of the compulsion.

I personally think that UK legislation for helmet compulsion for cyclists is likely to take place at some time in the future. It may, of course, be introduced in a piecemeal way with possibly children being the first to be affected. We will have to wait and see but I would not be suprised if some sort of legislation is introduced.

 

[Jaded]

You cannot compare motorcycles with cycles with regards to helmet wearing.

Amongst other place I've been to Cambridge in the last week. Thousands of cyclists and very few helmets, many of which were doing a Dave - dangling from the handlebars. Given that Addenbrooks is not fully of the head injured, I struggle to see what benefit a helmet law would bring to that or any city. Or rural area.

 

[HJ]

Whenever cycle helmets are debated, the introduction of helmet compulsion for motorcyclists is always brought up as an argument. But most using this argument fail to understand the difference in the level of protection between a motorcycles helmet and a cycle helmet. Motorcycles helmet do genuinely give a high level of protection, cycle helmets do not. Evidence from around the world has show that compulsory use of motorcycles helmets reduces the fatality rate of motorcyclist, but compulsory use of cycle helmets increases the fatality rate of cyclists (see here). Compulsory use of cycle helmets does not improve road safety so why bother? It only sounds good to non cyclist, ok so it may appeal to non cycling votes, but the long term heath cost will not to the most thinking politicians (if there is such a thing).

 

[piedwagtail91]

there seems to be little point comparing motorbike and bike helmets.
motorcyclists don't generate any heat when moving so can have helmets that do the job. a cycle helmet full of holes is bound to offer less protection.pretty much like the argument

 

[summerdays]

When they don't seem to be able to stop red-light jumpers, and pavement cyclists, I don't see why they would want to add to their list of things they aren't stopping.

 

[ufkacbln]

there seems to be little point comparing motorbike and bike helmets.
motorcyclists don't generate any heat when moving so can have helmets that do the job. a cycle helmet full of holes is bound to offer less protection.pretty much like the argument

Unless of course you consider that all tise racing cyclists should be wearing helmets designed for an impact at greater than 12mph (motorcycle helmet) than one designed to function at less than 12 mph (cycle helmet)

Or restrict race / triathlon speeds to match the efficiency of the helmets worn?

 

[4F]

3) Cycle to work without a helmet and then laugh in their faces when they try to take action against you. Get the union involved, stand in court and laugh even more.

Yeah I would agree with that. On the other point regarding having to wear a helmet for triathalons etc then yes in the past I have done these and worn a helmet. It is still pro choice though as it was my choice whether I entered the event or not.

 

[ufkacbln]

HSE have stated that cycle helmets are NOT PPE!

Dear Colin,

Thank you for your report on the effect cycle helmets have on cycle safety. Unfortunately HSE are able to offer you little help in this area as we only have responsibility towards cyclists while they are engaged in a work activity. These cyclists will represent a very small number of the total. HSE has no remit with regards to workers cycling to and from work. Furthermore cycle helmets used on the public highway are specifically excluded from the Personal Protective Equipment (PPE) at work regulations. This means that it would be very hard for an employer to force an employee to wear a cycle helmet on health and safety grounds, they will however be free to require employees to wear cycle helmets as part of their uniform.

HSE has no remit to dictate the uniform policy of a company unless it falls within the scope of PPE. Ultimately the wearing of cycle helmets is a matter on individual choice, any stance to the contrary could potentially be challenged on human rights
grounds. With regards to the use of cycle helmets on the public roads by members of the public, this is a policy area that falls totally within the remit of the Department for Transport.

Yours,
Jon Windeatt
Health & Safety Executive
Safety Policy Directorate
Workplace Transport & Special Hazards Section.

30 Sept 2002

 

[ufkacbln]

More interestingly - I work withthe Scouts and raised about £500 per year with sponsored cycle events, took the scouts cycling to camp and as expeditions.

The Scout Association then made cycle helmets compulsory.

If a boy now tuns up without one he has to be excluded. The rightto choose has been removed.

As I do not believe in compulsion, I no longer organise cycling events, the boys and the group are poorer financially and in experience.

 

[Spin City]

Jaded You cannot compare motorcycles with cycles with regards to helmet wearing.

Jaded: I wasn't comparing the difference between wearing motorcycle helmets and wearing cycle helmets. I was considering the introduction of the compulsion of helmet wearing. This seemed to work quite easily with motorcyclists as I think almost all motorcyclists now wear a helmet. This may be because a large majority were already wearing helmets when the compulsion was introduced and maybe also that motorcyclists could see the benefits of wearing a helmet. I can see that both of these things could cause a problem if the compulsion of cycle helmet wearing is introduced.

Hairy Jock ....... compulsory use of cycle helmets increases the fatality rate of cyclists (see here). Compulsory use of cycle helmets does not improve road safety so why bother?

Hairy Jock: I couldn't get your hyperlink to work. It certainly would be interesting to read a report that shows that the "compulsory use of cycle helmets increases the fatality rate of cyclists". As some countries/states have already introduced cycle helmet compulsion this sort of report could possibly lead to a review of their legislation.

Cunobelin Unless of course you consider that all tise racing cyclists should be wearing helmets designed for an impact at greater than 12mph (motorcycle helmet) than one designed to function at less than 12 mph (cycle helmet)

Cunobelin: I've shown your quote above about cycle helmets being "designed to function at less than 12mph". What does this mean? Are they only tested up to 12mph or are they all shown to fail in some way at speeds above 12mph or is there something else that I'm missing?

 

[ufkacbln]

Cunobelin: I've shown your quote above about cycle helmets being "designed to function at less than 12mph". What does this mean? Are they only tested up to 12mph or are they all shown to fail in some way at speeds above 12mph or is there something else that I'm missing?

The design parameters for cycle helmets and the tests only require that they are effective up to 12.5 mph. This is the statement for EN1078 - the watered down limit that is the requirement for sale in the UK.

 

[HJ]

Hairy Jock: I couldn't get your hyperlink to work. It certainly would be interesting to read a report that shows that the "compulsory use of cycle helmets increases the fatality rate of cyclists". As some countries/states have already introduced cycle helmet compulsion this sort of report could possibly lead to a review of their legislation.

The link works fine http://www.networks.nhs.uk/uploads/06/09/wardlaw.pdf
for me, try again. This is just one of a number of studies which have shown the same thing. Spin it which way you will, cycle helmets do not improve cycle safety.

 

[Spin City]

Cunobelin and Hairy Jock; Thanks for your replies.

Cunobelin: I think that if the introduction of helmet compulsion was being looked into by Parliament then a review of the suitability of helmets would definitley be required. It just makes you think about the standard of helmets that are currently being worn and whether the quality would have to be improved before compulsion was introduced. In fact, the introduction of compulsion could well lead to an improvement in the protection provided by helmets. Of course, I'm not sure how often helmets are impacted at speeds above 12mph in the real world.

Hairy Jock: I read the report you linked to (funny how it didn't work for me yesterday) and there is no mention of "helmets" or "compulsion" in that report. I don't know whether you included the correct link in your post or whether you read something in the report that I couldn't see. I don't think anybody could come to the conclusion that helmet compulsion increases the fatality rate of cyclists after reading that particular report.

 

[ufkacbln]

I wish that this was the case. Unfortunately I have no confidence in the motivation of the "Government"

The pro compulsion campaigners are more about moving blame to the cyclist than protecting.

The simple case is that there is no desire to do anything apart from put lids on heads!

 

[Spin City]

Cunobelin: Are the "pro compulsion campaigners" an organised group and, if so, what is the name of the organisation?

I find it difficult to believe that an organised group would hold the view "more about moving blame to the cyclist than protecting". I just can't imagine a pro compulsion group coming to that conclusion as one of their aims/policies.

I personally would have thought that the underlying aims of pro helmet campaigners would be for the benefit of cyclists involved in crashes/accidents.