no cleats for me.

[oldfatfool]

Unless I'm having a brainwave, 7 minutes past is 21 degrees off the straight. I don't think you'll find any off the shelf SPD cleats to accommodate that amount. What I don't quite get is how you manage not to hit the chainstay at that angle. You must have to have the arch of your foot on the pedal to avoid that.

I have a rigid toe cage fitted, when it was mounted square on the pedal I was getting intense knee pain after a long ride, I have since attached it 'off center' so yes the edge of my foot is overhanging the pedal and my heel just avoids scraping the crank. The only problem is the cage is only able to be attached with 1 bolt in this position so on a long ride tends to keep slackening and the cage rotating when foot off the pedals, which using cleats would solve. Looking at it again it is probably actually closer to '5 past, 15degs' but I don't think a cleat would allow for that either!! Going to have to come up with a way of fitting the cage more solidly I had to tighten it at least a dozen times on the SOM audax last week

 

[Crankarm]

Luddites - there are these modern pedals and corresponding shoes called SPDs. They are marvellous. You will wonder why it took you so long to use them. You can easily walk in SPDs.

.

 

[Mugshot]

For clipless pedals that means that if you don't race, sprint regularly or climb agressively then you're just another fish on a marketing hook. Absolutely nothing wrong with that, ride however you want in whatever kit you like, but there's no need to try and do the marketing job for the industry.

I'm no fish my friend. Like so many others on here I came back to cycling after a 20 year lay off. 20 years ago my bike had toe straps and I loved them, coming back to cycling I find that clipless appears to be the way technology has moved things, so I got them, because I prefer the feeling of being fixed to the pedals on my road bike (Both my mountain bike and my hybrid have bog standard out of the shop flats)
20 years ago I changed gears using little levers on my down tube, but I don't anymore. Perhaps I should have looked for an antique on ebay rather than allow myself to become sucked into this obvious marketing ploy!
Gear changers on the handlebars? Aluminium? Carbon? 20+ gears? I'm not going to be a slave to the marketeers, I'm going to stick it to the man. Where's my Grifter with its 3 speed Sturmey Archer hub these days?

 

[Norm]

20 years ago I changed gears using little levers on my down tube, but I don't anymore. Perhaps I should have looked for an antique on ebay rather than allow myself to become sucked into this obvious marketing ploy!

What has a preference on pedal design got to do with downtube shifters?

It's this sort of rubbish which is not only completely unnecessary but it also makes you look like an arse (IMO) and it leads to needless polarisation.

You've tried it, you prefer it, congratulations, I wish you years of incident free cycling. Others tried it and didn't like it, so have chosen not to continue with them.

Personally, I think it takes more courage and self-awareness to spend money trying a system and then dismiss it than it does to blithely continue with something which may not be working.

If someone doesn't like clipless, having tried it for many thousands of miles, they should be able to choose not to use them without being called luddites.

 

[bigjim]

The only problem is the cage is only able to be attached with 1 bolt in this position so on a long ride tends to keep slackening and the cage

Use a cable tie or 2, to secure the cage to the pedal. Stops the bolt loosening.

Salesman "there are these modern pedals and corresponding shoes called SPDs" Customer. "right. Best be modern. I'll have a pair" salesman "now what about shoes" "shoes?" "oh yes you need shoes" "I've got shoes" " No sir. You have to have the special shoes for these pedals" "So If I can't use the pedals without the shoes? What's that you say? I can't walk very far either in these shoes? What? I have to spend some time repositioning them so I don't damage my knees, or suffer hotspots? I also have to practise so I don't fall off and alter the tension so I can get out of them in time in an emergency? Hmmm"
Ya can't beat progress tha knows.

 

[Hip Priest]

If riding clipless is so good, then surely the advantages speak for themselves. I don't understand why some of the clipless evangelists are getting so snippy and defensive with people who choose to use clips or flats.

By the way, I hope all you luddites have got your order in for an electronic Campag group set.

 

[Mugshot]

What has a preference on pedal design got to do with downtube shifters?

It's this sort of rubbish which is not only completely unnecessary but it also makes you look like an arse (IMO) and it leads to needless polarisation.

You've tried it, you prefer it, congratulations, I wish you years of incident free cycling. Others tried it and didn't like it, so have chosen not to continue with them.

Personally, I think it takes more courage and self-awareness to spend money trying a system and then dismiss it than it does to blithely continue with something which may not be working.

If someone doesn't like clipless, having tried it for many thousands of miles, they should be able to choose not to use them without being called luddites.

WOW. I really believe you should learn to read and digest a thread, then try to understand the context in which things are being posted. As you appear to be hard of thinking and have therefore resorted to calling me an arse let me try to explain it for you.
MacB has suggested that anybody that uses clipless pedals that does not " race, sprint regularly or climb agressively" is merely a patsy to the marketing guys. I do not believe I am, I am pretty sure that technology had moved on from when I had last had a decent road bike (20 years ago), so that in the same way as build materials had changed and gear shifters had changed, pedals had changed too. It therefore has everything to do with down shifters, things change, my adoption of those innovations does not automatically make me "just another fish on a marketing hook" I am resonably confident that clipless pedals are more common than toe clips and straps so that's what I got, not because an advert told me to.
I have not suggested it is the only system worth having, I state quite clearly that on my two other bikes I have bog standard pedals, they've even got reflectors, and I can assure you I try them on a regualr basis, so I most certainly have not and will not blithely continue to use something which doesnt work nor have I encouraged others to do so.
I also didn't call anyone a luddite.
Thank you for wishing me years of trouble free cycling though, you too.

 

[Norm]

All of which is completely irrelevant as I thought the rest of your post was considered. It was only the one paragraph attempting to link a preference to clipless to the downtube shifters which was unnecessary and which leads to the polarisation into two tribes.

Or, in a tone of condescension which you might recognise, I really believe you should learn to read and digest an individual post, then try to understand the specifics of what was posted.

As I'm hard of thinking, I'd also appreciate it if you could point out where I called you an arse.

 

[Mugshot]

As I'm hard of thinking, I'd also appreciate it if you could point out where I called you an arse.

It's this sort of rubbish which is not only completely unnecessary but it also makes you look like an arse (IMO) and it leads to needless polarisation.

All of which is completely irrelevant as I thought the rest of your post was considered. It was only the one paragraph attempting to link a preference to clipless to the downtube shifters which was unnecessary and which leads to the polarisation into two tribes.

I'm not seeing the link, I've read and re-read my post.
I'll try again for you, had I looked very hard I could have found a bike which had down tube shifters and toe clips just like I had when I was a lad. However as neither of those things are so readily available I chose to have what appears to be the most common system on todays modern road bikes, I didn't buy them because a salesman told that they wear them in the TDF as MacB seems to be suggesting.
You may also note that I didn't say I preferred clipless, should we mention reading posts properly again

 

[Norm]

I don't see much to be gained from continuing this, I think the hard of thinking is there for all to see.

 

[Mugshot]

I agree entirely

 

[bobg]

I like clipless or toe clips or nothing, STI or dowtube, indexed or friction, Campag Shimano or Sturmey Archer, Brooks B 17 saddles or big fat sprung ones or modern anatomically designed ones. Old Raleigh Roadsters, 50's club tourers or modern lightweights. Whats the problem, it depends on your mood, where you are going and why and what you want from the sport/hobby / obsession....

 

[deptfordmarmoset]

I have a rigid toe cage fitted, when it was mounted square on the pedal I was getting intense knee pain after a long ride, I have since attached it 'off center' so yes the edge of my foot is overhanging the pedal and my heel just avoids scraping the crank. The only problem is the cage is only able to be attached with 1 bolt in this position so on a long ride tends to keep slackening and the cage rotating when foot off the pedals, which using cleats would solve. Looking at it again it is probably actually closer to '5 past, 15degs' but I don't think a cleat would allow for that either!! Going to have to come up with a way of fitting the cage more solidly I had to tighten it at least a dozen times on the SOM audax last week

It's difficult to imagine but I wonder whether power grip pedal straps might help. They mount at an angle so you might be able to mount one ''the wrong way'' round, allowing the heel to point inwards a little while still giving a firm grip on the pedal. I've never actually seen them in real life though but it's worth a thought anyway.

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=28933

 

[MacB]

WOW. I really believe you should learn to read and digest a thread, then try to understand the context in which things are being posted. As you appear to be hard of thinking and have therefore resorted to calling me an arse let me try to explain it for you.
MacB has suggested that anybody that uses clipless pedals that does not " race, sprint regularly or climb agressively" is merely a patsy to the marketing guys. I do not believe I am, I am pretty sure that technology had moved on from when I had last had a decent road bike (20 years ago), so that in the same way as build materials had changed and gear shifters had changed, pedals had changed too. It therefore has everything to do with down shifters, things change, my adoption of those innovations does not automatically make me "just another fish on a marketing hook" I am resonably confident that clipless pedals are more common than toe clips and straps so that's what I got, not because an advert told me to.
I have not suggested it is the only system worth having, I state quite clearly that on my two other bikes I have bog standard pedals, they've even got reflectors, and I can assure you I try them on a regualr basis, so I most certainly have not and will not blithely continue to use something which doesnt work nor have I encouraged others to do so.
I also didn't call anyone a luddite.
Thank you for wishing me years of trouble free cycling though, you too.

Actually I didn't suggest that, there are valid reasons for using them outside the race/sprint/climb, you may prefer the image, the sensation, or feel that you get enough gains to make it worthwhile. I fully support anyone in this choice I just dislike those that then parrot the marketing myths as if they know what they are talking about. Examples of this are:-

night and day difference - if you don't race/sprint/climb agressively then this is patently nonsense and I would challenge anyone to present any evidence to the contrary - I will note here that the manufacturers don't dare make these claims and with good reason

clipless moments only hurt your pride and are always funny - again this is patently nonsense - it is falling off your bike, to dismiss the risk of injury/damage to you or your bike is to deny reality

once you try clipless you'll never go back - this is untrue people do for a variety of reasons, from plain old personal preference to resolving a setup/pain issue

then there are the explicit, or implicit, assumptions - if you moved from clipless to flats or straps it's due to a 'fault' with you rather than the possibility that, for the way you ride, the payoff from clipless just didn't pan out. Always in the background of these comments is the assumption that 'proper' cyclists ride clipless and there's often a 'whiff' of sneering.


Look at threads, and info, across the web, someone asks about going clipless and the 'yahoos' jump in with total claptrap, you'll go a million miles faster, night and day, you'll never look back, you'll fall but it'll only be funny, it's a revelation and I almost fill my pants just trying to describe it!!!!!!! Then try asking them to quantify, and support, their claims and suddenly it al goes quiet.

 

[apollo179]

I'm not seeing the link, I've read and re-read my post.
I'll try again for you, had I looked very hard I could have found a bike which had down tube shifters and toe clips just like I had when I was a lad. However as neither of those things are so readily available I chose to have what appears to be the most common system on todays modern road bikes, I didn't buy them because a salesman told that they wear them in the TDF as MacB seems to be suggesting.
You may also note that I didn't say I preferred clipless, should we mention reading posts properly again

Surely the most common is just plain old flat footrests.
Assuming the guys on the tdf use clipless i can see that clipless has an application in some circumstances but i seriously doubt they are suitable to be recommended generally or in reality are the most common.
The tdf is interlinked with marketing all this unnessecary new fangled stuff anyway.