NHS- you can see why people go private

[ttcycle]

I agree there are some real issues within the NHS - there was a whole floor on the ground floor of the building I worked in which had been refurbished several times and for those times was not used for months so the money was spent on projected projects that never materialised - I agree there is mismanagement. I'm not suggesting that people with private healthcare are to blame for that nowhere in my posts do I suggest that.

I just take issue with the fact that the quality of care should by default be higher without privatisation or private health care coming into it. Those issues don't get tackled - PFIs and Foundation Trusts don't answer those questions and certainly, pharmaceutical companies making a nice mint and horrendous profit from medicines etc is all part of a similar system of greed. Making the NHS 'competitive' just means that hospitals fight each other in bidding wars- it's horrible to see and hasn't resolved most of the original issues.

Vickster it seems that in your case not all your services were leeching off the NHS resources but I've seen first hand a lot of this happening in practice.

 

[ttcycle]

About 6 years ago, my wife suddenly starting suffering from severe groin and lower back pain. In A&E, they ummed and arred about whether it might be her appendix or an ectopic pregnancy, and let her stay in a ward for 2 days without doing any tests apart from a pregnancy one, before releasing her, and referring her to have follow up treatment at the pain clinic.

Day 3 she went to see a BUPA consultant at a private hospital, had an immediate MRI scan which identified severe issues in her spine resulting in rapid surgery to fuse various bones and insert a titanium cage. She had to be in a wheelchair for some time and have further spinal surgery. About 8 months later she had to visit A&E on a completely different issue and they mentioned in passing that it was handy she'd popped in, as she was due to have the next day her scheduled MRI scan arranged from 8 months earlier!!!!

Apart from that, the NHS is wonderful.

That is really bad and sounds quite traumatic!
Though it sounds more like the A&E staff really were clueless - I'm not defending that but often MRIs and high cost procedures aren't used as a first port of call due to their expense.

 

[ttcycle]

I think you might love this:

[media]
]View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqWXO87TlH4[/media]


'Same for all! SAME, SAME, SAME!'

Err I couldn't watch all of it - it was a little too kitsch for me! lol- thanks for the sentiments 'comrade' ahem!!

 

[Adasta]

Err I couldn't watch all of it - it was a little too kitsch for me! lol- thanks for the sentiments 'comrade' ahem!!

Well, you can be too red, then...

 

[vickster]

But how else do pharmaceutical companies pay for their R&D...12 years and at least $1bn to develop a drug...95%+ of new chemical entities fail in pre-clinical trials - never make it out of the lab but have still cost millions in development. Can't see governments funding this...the companies also employ thousands upon thousands of people globally - in their companies but also in universities etc, support the scientific community, yes, they make profit, but they do pay $$$ in taxes - and it is a very risky business...

Pharmaceutical companies do actually provide something of use (ok you can argue that some drugs do more harm than good, are addictive, have side effects etc, but where would the treatment of cancer be, diabetes be, we would still have nasty, dirty anaesthetics and not to mention erectile dysfunction

 

[Flying Dodo]

Although on the flip side, without pharmaceutical R&D, we wouldn't have to suffer umpteen thousands of spam emails for Viagra!

 

[ttcycle]

Well, you can be too red, then...

Hahah, I'm a different shade of red.

Vickster, the thing is it comes down to drugs being over inflated in price- some countries/counties really need a drug but can't afford to access it (this is a global situation and not just one of the UK/NHS).

Yes, I believe that research and development is a vital thing but I'm thinking of looking at this laterally - it's the profit. Is that necessary and what is the ethics of that? Especially in restriction to access. You do mention that governments won't fund research but they end up doing so by proxy of paying for the extra/higher costs in medicines.

Not everyone feels the same way about access in that egalitarian way but what I feel is a wider political thing. Need not greed inho.

 

[ttcycle]

Although on the flip side, without pharmaceutical R&D, we wouldn't have to suffer umpteen thousands of spam emails for Viagra!

haha yes!

 

[PK99]

a few years ago, i had Carpal tunnel syndrome, easily self diagnosed and confirmed by GP. Splinting and anti inflammatory meds worked for a few months but eventually the pain was disabling. GP referred me to orthropods.

Instead of an orthropod, i was booked in with a rheumatologist, 6/8 weeks to appointment. Recommended Nerve conduction test to confirm the diagnosis. 6/8 weeks to appointment. Teccie said it was one of the clearest cases he had seen. 6/8 weeks to see rheumatologist again to get result of test. CT syndrome confirmed, operation needed, would need to see Orthropod (where and when had i heard that before?) but 12 week waiting list.

Several weeks later appointment letter arrived - for another visit to the rheumatologist in 6/8 weeks.

I was clear i was being managed away from the orthropods to keep the waiting list to the 12 week limit (or whatever the limit was)

I lost patience and asked my gp for a private referral to the local bupa hospital, saw a consultant within days and was offered an operation within days. i did not then have private health cover and paid the full cost myself.

****
I had a similar experience with a knee problem a year or so later, when GP was up front and said the 12 week waiting time was a fiction and it would be much longer before i could see and orthropod - i went private and paid for my own MRI scan

*****

A few months ago an NHS hospital had my wife for 36 hours lost her twice in that time with staff wandering round looking for her, they discharged her with an undiagnosed fractured shoulder as one of the people who could not fid her was the x ray porter.
30 minutes in a bupa hospital a few days later and the shoulder was x rayed and diagnosed.

****

a few years ago, my 9 year old daughter was booked in for a very minor fracture manipulation under general anaesthetic at 9am. no food from 9pm, she went down the theatre at 1600hrs - the theatre had been blocked all day by walk-ins needing to be dealt with within 4 hours- my daughter was no ones statistic to manage

****

Generally the people in the NHS are good hardworking professionals, but the system lets them and patients down

****

Rant over!

 

[vickster]

Ultimately, pharma has made its profits from the blockbusters that were launched 10-15 years ago (the anti-hypertensives, the statins, the anti-depressants, the painkillers), those where the patents are now expiring, not the niche drugs for cancer and the like that cost £1000s a month for a relatively small number of patients in the developed world which make it onto Breakfast News and into the Daily Mail... but still cost millions to develop (and where the failure rate in development is undoubtedly even higher)

The NHS drugs budget is massive, not solely because of the cost of the drugs - something like 75% of the population don't pay (among others, children, older folks, diabetics, contraception is free) (and in Scotland no one does, wales not sure?). And then people fill the prescriptions for the drugs they don't pay for (but have to be funded), don't take the pills, get sicker, end up needing more treatment, more drugs they don't take...

I'd far rather pharma companies made profit and continue to plough a large proportion of that into R&D...than banks, no win-no fee lawyers, evil landlords, estate agents...

Rant over

 

[ttcycle]

anyway, that's me signing off- I've got all my profits to count

hahah

 

[fossyant]

Don't get me started. Two weeks after my RTA my GP and physio (went private as I was told no chance NHS) said you need that shoulder decompressing.

Took two years to get it done on the NHS. Not blaming them, but if you are fit and active, you won't be a priority.

5 months on from my op, and my shoulder, whilst mechanically fixed, is far more painful than before. Don't get to see my surgeon for another 7 weeks (this will be 6 months after he operated) so phoned and got OK to get physio - oh and I've got to pay for that as well.

£2k on physio after accident, and now again to start paying to get shoulder OK. It's 95% there for movement, to someone not active it would be OK, but I can't carry anything heavy (e.g. suitcase) or indeed sprint hard on the bike nor climb 20-25% hills any more.

Hissed off I is...more at the third party's flippin insurers who won't pay any more interim expenses (over £1300 out of pocket).

NHS is great, but don't expect any priority if fit and active. TBH preventative care will cut bills long term, but unfortunately they aren't funded like that.

My medical records have statements like 'it can't hurt that much as he does heavy duty cycling', that was one comment when the consultant was shoving steroids into my shoulder (which didn't work) about would it affect me the next day as I was riding to work, riding to one of Dan_bo's track sessions and two hours on the track, you should have seen her face. I got a copy given to me by my GP (who is actually really good).

NHS - treatment/GP great. System/waiting/referrals = crap !

 

[Tyke]

How come all these great private doctors are trained by the N.H.S. work part time for the N.H.S. to do private work which could be done for the N.H.S.and in some cases is done in N.H.S.hospitals as private work.

If we train them to to be the best then we should expect them to be the best when we need them not just when we can afford them.

Support the FREE N.H.S. at point of need as it was meant to be 65 years ago when started the private patients still expect it when things go wrong.

 

[Flying Dodo]

Support the FREE N.H.S. at point of need as it was meant to be 65 years ago when started the private patients still expect it when things go wrong.

Except that's not actually the case. The situation we have today is precisely down to the way the NHS was set up, and the original contracts offered to the doctors at the time.

 

[Andrew_P]

I think the NHS should and could be means tested, those earning above a certain figure should have to top up with Private Health care, but still be able to use the NHS.

My Wife suffered with bone to bone arthritis in her left hip for three years, 2.5 years she was treated with Physio to the knee as all the pain reffered to there in the last 6 months she was in Agony couldn't even lay in bed, I paid for some private clinic to X-Ray and treat, they like the NHS X-Rayed the knee and it only showed mild signs hence the NHS would only offer Physio, then they X-Rayed the left hip which the NHS should have done as it is fairly common for hip pain to refer to the knee, and there it was bone to bone.

She got reffered and luckly we live near the EPOC centre of excellence joint replacement centre and her treatment and end result where fantastic. Sop god bless the NHS for that.