NHS- you can see why people go private

[numbnuts]

I've been having a lot of pain in lower back, went to see my doctor on April 27th and told it maybe Sciatica and he made an appointment for the pain clinic at the local hospital
Hospital appointment 13[sup]th[/sup] May told I need a scan
Scan on 31[sup]th[/sup] May
next appointment 24[sup]th[/sup] August fror the pain clinic
It's a bloody good job I'm not working that's 17 weeks after I saw my own doctor, but I bet some people have been waiting much longer than I have

 

[Tyke]

I was last in hospital when I was 12 years old, until last year when I had the Heart Attack. Busy Bank Holiday Saturday afternoon walked into a hospital that has no A&E asking for help and they sent for the ambulance took care of me until it came then all blues and 2's to heart unit in Leeds. I was there and in the theater in 30 min and excellent treatment over the next few month's as an out patient in three hospitals.

I'm 55 next week and fitter now than I was ten years ago, but I can't help thinking you would not need to wait so long if less people went private as most of the doctors they see also work for the N.H.S. and can't do both at the same time.

Hang in there it wont be long until August now. I hope you get as good a service as I did and I'm sure it will be worth the wait.

 

[vickster]

Pain docs seem to be in particularly short supply, also we are in holiday time now which may also explain the wait? Always badger secretaries for a cancellation too

Even if you have private insurance you can wait a while to see the top docs, probably because they only spend some of their time doing private work due to their NHS commitments

 

[ttcycle]

Private healthcare is not the answer- firstly, it isn't available to all like the NHS (small details etc permitting) - I understand your frustrations at the wait and hope there is a cancellation for you soon. Bear in mind that private patients get treated by NHS doctors that also do private work. When I worked in the NHS these doctors favoured and spent more time on those patients that paid. Private patients also often use the same resources that NHS places do ie scanners, staff, doctors etc etc, so it doesn't address the problem - allows for greed in some doctors that are already paid huge salaries and continues to create an elitist moneyed system. The NHS needs more input and don't get me started on the cost of certain services and medicines etc.

 

[subaqua]

this has to be the friday kick off thread

 

[ufkacbln]

this has to be the friday kick off thread

Within the 18 week target though!



More seriously - the last Goverment loaded Hospital Trusts with such massive debts that cutting staf and clinics is the only way to survive.

 

[Adasta]

Private healthcare is not the answer- firstly, it isn't available to all like the NHS (small details etc permitting) - I understand your frustrations at the wait and hope there is a cancellation for you soon. Bear in mind that private patients get treated by NHS doctors that also do private work. When I worked in the NHS these doctors favoured and spent more time on those patients that paid. Private patients also often use the same resources that NHS places do ie scanners, staff, doctors etc etc, so it doesn't address the problem - allows for greed in some doctors that are already paid huge salaries and continues to create an elitist moneyed system. The NHS needs more input and don't get me started on the cost of certain services and medicines etc.

I'm pretty divided on this. I think it's because of the fact that doctors are split across NHS and private.

Part of me thinks that there is no ethical problem with paying for healthcare. If you want to fly first class, for example, you pay the extra money for the extra "attention" - no problem. You're taxed anyway so you're still propping up the NHS even if you aren't using it.

But the shared resources in this instance is a problem. Of course doctors are going to do NHS and private work - can you blame them? While I think this is a problem, I don't think demonising a person's choice to pay for healthcare is an adequate response (I'm not saying that you are doing this, merely point out that I don't think it would be fair to do that).

 

[ttcycle]

I'm not demonising the choice, I just don't agree with it. Some of my family are on private healthcare but I would not choose to do so myself as a political choice. The issues within the NHS that need sorting out won't be addressed, it's just backdoor privatising of the NHS.

 

[Adasta]

I'm not demonising the choice, I just don't agree with it. Some of my family are on private healthcare but I would not choose to do so myself as a political choice. The issues within the NHS that need sorting out won't be addressed, it's just backdoor privatising of the NHS.

But when it comes to health it becomes less clear. I can't blame a person for wanting to be cured of an ailment. What I can blame is mis-management. I can see your point and agree that the NHS needs reform and needs to be considered as an instrument for healing the sick, not as an ideological tool. But if a person wants/needs an operation and can do it 9 months quicker by going private, I find it had to begrudge him/her that.

Unless it's for gout.

 

[ttcycle]

My issue with that is it increasingly allows those with cash to get a preferential treatment - a growing trend which creates such a divide. Having the money does not necessarily prioritise you for treatment. I know this is due to my political leanings but the example you give of a flight - as you recognise the NHS is not the same in context but the idea that people can just buy themselves anything they want is abhorrent and crass to me. I get annoyed with those BUPA adverts as the NHS has just become so eroded and understaffed and target based culture undermines it.


Rant rant rant!!

 

[Adasta]

My issue with that is it increasingly allows those with cash to get a preferential treatment - a growing trend which creates such a divide. Having the money does not necessarily prioritise you for treatment. I know this is due to my political leanings but the example you give of a flight - as you recognise the NHS is not the same in context but the idea that people can just buy themselves anything they want is abhorrent and crass to me. I get annoyed with those BUPA adverts as the NHS has just become so eroded and understaffed and target based culture undermines it.


Rant rant rant!!

You filthy red.

Jesting, of course. Removing choice doesn't work well for humans, that's my only problem. I firmly believe in the NHS, though.

 

[ttcycle]

I'm not talking about removing choice - there is this confusion that left wing radicalism is often devoid of choice - I just don't believe in a market creating choice or choices based entirely upon capital as that creates inequality in choices.

I am not after shades of grey in the world, however conversely I don't think we need all the differing types of toothpastes if you know what I mean

 

[vickster]

But if people go private does it not reduce the burden on the NHS? Not like we are paying less tax, or that the NHS costs aren't increasing (yes, certainly the mis-management and over-management needs sorting...the last Government despite their political leanings are pretty damn guilty in this respect). The population is growing, we are ageing, we are living longer with chronic illness and costs are spiralling (the same in every country).

My example - I have private insurance through work (nothing to do with being taken in by a BUPA ad), for which I am taxed (yes, I am lucky to have this perk, the sector I work in is competitive, need to attract staff). I also pay tax, NI, VAT, VED, council tax etc etc and do so without (too much) bitching which goes towards paying for the NHS...

I have had knee issues for nearly 2 years - initially seen at A&E, a couple of GP visits and referred to orthopaedic surgeon...X-ray and bloods done on NHS then every appointment, scans, physio appointment and 2 operations done at private hospitals, no use of NHS resources. I have seen my GP for pain meds and to keep her informed of what was happening but no NHS hospital treatment. My knee has probably cost the PHC company £15k at least (I see the bills, haven't totted them all up). I may have had a further surgery if appropriate which is not routinely even available on the NHS being experimental - not enough data for NICE to approve it - if there weren't people having it done privately, the data will never be available (I had to argue long and hard with the PHC company to get them to sign off). There is a possibility of more surgery which will cost another 10k no doubt with pre-hab, surgery, post-op care and rehab!

IF I had had all of this done on the NHS, yes it would have taken longer, but it still would have happened and I would have used those resources - 15+ physio sessions, 10 surgeon appointments, more X-rays, 2 MRIs and 2 operations.

I remember having a discussion with my first surgeon who is an immense supporter of the NHS (yes he has a private practice but still works at least 3 days a week in the NHS, I don't see him as a golfer ) - he said some of the waste in the NHS was phenomenal, months paying consultants to undertake superfluous projects that could have been completed much more quickly or were simply unnecessary. I don't think you can blame people having private HC for that!

I am a supporter of the NHS, always have been, fantastic, we are supremely lucky to have it, especially when you look at the system elsewhere (the mess the US healthcare system is in is terrifying).

Ramble over

 

[Adasta]

I am not after shades of grey in the world, however conversely I don't think we need all the differing types of toothpastes if you know what I mean

I think you might love this:

[media]
]View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqWXO87TlH4[/media]


'Same for all! SAME, SAME, SAME!'

 

[Flying Dodo]

About 6 years ago, my wife suddenly starting suffering from severe groin and lower back pain. In A&E, they ummed and arred about whether it might be her appendix or an ectopic pregnancy, and let her stay in a ward for 2 days without doing any tests apart from a pregnancy one, before releasing her, and referring her to have follow up treatment at the pain clinic.

Day 3 she went to see a BUPA consultant at a private hospital, had an immediate MRI scan which identified severe issues in her spine resulting in rapid surgery to fuse various bones and insert a titanium cage. She had to be in a wheelchair for some time and have further spinal surgery. About 8 months later she had to visit A&E on a completely different issue and they mentioned in passing that it was handy she'd popped in, as she was due to have the next day her scheduled MRI scan arranged from 8 months earlier!!!!

Apart from that, the NHS is wonderful.