New sealed cartridges bearings not turning

[rockyraccoon]

There's a lot good info here, thanks everyone and especially Yellow Saddle for all the info and links, some I had read already before posting, interesting stuff.

Bearings are in the hubs, working great, smooth and spinning freely and quiet. I kept both seals. Cheers!

 

[gbb]

out of interest Rocky, did the original bearings in the hubs have a single or double seal. it'd be modestly interesting to know if it's just a Fulcrum thing to remove one of them.

 

[rockyraccoon]

out of interest Rocky, did the original bearings in the hubs have a single or double seal. it'd be modestly interesting to know if it's just a Fulcrum thing to remove one of them.

Sure, wheels are fulcrum from 2015. Double seal on all bearings. Bearings are S&S size 6903-2rs.

The 2 bearings inside the freehub are smaller, 6803-2rs. The one near the cassette had double seal. The other one, near the hub, had one seal removed, but it is definitely a 2rs. I don't know why it was removed. I could not find any information from fulcrum
All their tech papers state double seal bearings in the freehub for this specific wheel.

 

[confusedcyclist]

I don't see the logic, if you save a tiny fraction of a power by removing a seal from the hub bearings, at the expense of risking trashing your cones, bearings, or having to clean and repack grease way more often, the rational choice is to retain the seals. Get caught out in a rain storm, cycle through a flooded street, you'll have issues, guaranteed.

And to dress this up as a performance gain, well, you know what they say about separating fools with their money.

 

[gbb]

I don't see the logic, if you save a tiny fraction of a power by removing a seal from the hub bearings, at the expense of risking trashing your cones, bearings, or having to clean and repack grease way more often, the rational choice is to retain the seals. Get caught out in a rain storm, cycle through a flooded street, you'll have issues, guaranteed.

And to dress this up as a performance gain, well, you know what they say about separating fools with their money.

There are always two sides to a coin.
The gain is less friction, albeit (and already stated)marginal, but in my case...a gain i could actually feel.
Original bearings are unbranded and of unknown quality....replacements in my case (and anyone else who cares to fit better quality bearings )are higher and known quality, will perform better and last longer.
With one seal removed, my hubs have (as already stated) have performed fine over several thousand miles, no percievable loss of grease, no water ingress...nothing, they're fine.
The manufacturer quite clearly feels, due to the fact the open side of the bearing is on the inside of the axle so not exposed to water or dust at all. If its good enough for them, its good enough for me.

Just re-reading, I suspect you're confusing bearing type. There are no cones, we're not talking about cup n cone hubs, we're talking sealed cartridge bearings hubs.

Fools and their money is a bit uneccessary btw . Happy to spend a bit extra on quality equipment / spares is a prudent thing to do...if you (me or anyone else) is happy to do so. Equally, if you want to keep it exactly as the manufacturer specified...with lesser quality bearings....your choice entirely, as it should be.

 

[Yellow Saddle]

All Mavic OEM bearings are SKF. If you examine the outer race in good light, you'll see the SKF mark laser etched in the bearing. I'm pretty sure that Campag bearings are also SKF.
The fact that you cannot perceive the loss of grease doesn't mean it isn't there. I doubt your bearing was any different from those in the photo I posted. I can't see how one person can have a different experience under the same circumstances. I've never come across any such bearings that don't look like that after just a short while. There are better ways of reducing friction in bearings than removing seals. You could change the type of grease or use less grease or, use a steel shield on the inside and a rubber one on the outside.
I won't put too much emphasis on manufacturer wisdom. Those same two manufacturers (under the same umbrella) have several other glaring engineering flaws on their wheels, such as paired spokes and three-spoke clusters. Mavic is probably the worst engineering wise in that respect, with its threaded rims which prematurely fail for reasons obvious to the informed observer.

I am aware that some bearings have too much friction for freewheel mechanisms. This causes the freewheel to throw the chain forwards when coasting. The solution here is a bearing will less grease, not fewer seals. Enduro makes such bearings and many of that company's popular bike sizes can be had with more or less balls and more or less grease. This makes the world of difference in problem applications such as freewheels and suspension links.

I cannot imagine any valid reason why one should not fit an internal seal on those cartridge bearings.

Sometimes it is prudent to not keep it as the manufacturer intended.

 

[confusedcyclist]

There are always two sides to a coin.
Just re-reading, I suspect you're confusing bearing type. There are no cones, we're not talking about cup n cone hubs, we're talking sealed cartridge bearings hubs.

Fools and their money is a bit uneccessary btw . Happy to spend a bit extra on quality equipment / spares is a prudent thing to do...if you (me or anyone else) is happy to do so. Equally, if you want to keep it exactly as the manufacturer specified...with lesser quality bearings....your choice entirely, as it should be.

Yes your right, I had confused the type above.

Fools and their money was just a bit of tongue in cheek. Poe's law strikes again.

 

[gbb]

No offense taken

 

[gbb]

All Mavic OEM bearings are SKF. If you examine the outer race in good light, you'll see the SKF mark laser etched in the bearing. I'm pretty sure that Campag bearings are also SKF.
The fact that you cannot perceive the loss of grease doesn't mean it isn't there. I doubt your bearing was any different from those in the photo I posted. I can't see how one person can have a different experience under the same circumstances. I've never come across any such bearings that don't look like that after just a short while. There are better ways of reducing friction in bearings than removing seals. You could change the type of grease or use less grease or, use a steel shield on the inside and a rubber one on the outside.
I won't put too much emphasis on manufacturer wisdom. Those same two manufacturers (under the same umbrella) have several other glaring engineering flaws on their wheels, such as paired spokes and three-spoke clusters. Mavic is probably the worst engineering wise in that respect, with its threaded rims which prematurely fail for reasons obvious to the informed observer.

I am aware that some bearings have too much friction for freewheel mechanisms. This causes the freewheel to throw the chain forwards when coasting. The solution here is a bearing will less grease, not fewer seals. Enduro makes such bearings and many of that company's popular bike sizes can be had with more or less balls and more or less grease. This makes the world of difference in problem applications such as freewheels and suspension links.

I cannot imagine any valid reason why one should not fit an internal seal on those cartridge bearings.

Sometimes it is prudent to not keep it as the manufacturer intended.

I wouldnt dispute your experiences and it may be ive been lucky (re the loss of grease). But, when i did inspect, no appreciable loss was seen, the bearings seemed to be functioning fine, i'd only taken it apart to inspect for my own interest and in all honesty...they looked nothing like the ones in your photo. Thats not to say they wouldnt with time...nevertheless, mine didnt with reasonable mileage in them.

Different strokes...to change bearings for me is easy, i consider them in the same way as a chain, a consumable, not something i expect to last forever, price isnt an issue, i enjoy doing it and in my personal case, it hasnt had a negative impact.

Equally, if folk want to fit and forget and maximise to the nth degree reliability etc...great , leave all the seals intact. But as said, mine have been fine and still are...6 years later. (tbf i did have a couple years off the bike but even so)

Just different strokes, different requirements, and sometimes, just because i can