New carbon or Ti road bike advice...please

[jay clock]

Ok, I am possibly up for a new road bike and want advice. I currently have 6 bikes including a Trek 1.2 road bike for the winter and a Scott Speedster S10 for the summer. I do triathlons and this year I am moving up to Half Ironman, but I am not a superfast cyclist, so really want a road bike with ability to fit clip on aerobars rather than a pure TT bike.

The Scott Speedster S10 has Ultegra kit and was a "£1400" bike that I got for £650. Probably really was worth £999. The wheels were duff so I upgraded them, but the bike seems to be quite harsh in ride quality (aluminium frame with carbon front and rear forks, so more comfort is a must

I am a solid build (shrinking!) weigh about 85kg, about 1m77 tall. I MUST have a compact chainset as my pedalling style demands it. I looked at some Wiliers and BMC bikes in my LBS and that has convinced me that I want Shimano kit - the Campag stuff looks very poor quality - the brake hoods looked cheap and shiny, and the rear mechs not well finished

Budget? Who knows, but I would like to think 1000-1500, and 2k absolutely tops. I am interested to know about full carbon or titanium bikes, but maybe these are way off budget. And fussy though it may be, I do not like multicoloured or garish bikes! Black or silver and understated would be nice!

I look forward to your many and varied views!

 

[Paul_Smith SRCC]

Comparing frame materials is a topic often mentioned, below is my take on the differences, I have listed all the popular types to give an overall a comparison that you may find of interest, I repeat this is my take on the differences, fully respect if others have a different view point.

Frame materials:

Frames made of Aluminium Alloy: Often simply referred to as ‘Alloy’ Light, cheap, reasonably robust although some do comment that aluminium alloy frames are not as comfortable when compared to the others; in part this is why most will not use aluminium alloy forks, most current roads bikes will use steel or carbon. Aluminium Alloy supposedly has the most performance drop off, which in fairness only really effects a racing cyclist where a few percent reduction in performance can make the difference (especially in their heads) of winning or coming second, in reality that applies more to the older lighter frames when Pro’ riders used extremely light versions (now most pro teams use Carbon), the modern budget frames use a heavier, more robust alloy and are of course aimed at a different style of riding. They are now the most common option in the mid range and upwards frame sets, fairly robust, as they will normally dent as apposed to crack. Normally the price dictates a purchase of a frame built in alloy, that does not mean that you will not be satisfied, you will see quite a few older frames still being ridden by club cyclists who find them perfectly adequate, plus many don’t have any complaints re’ comfort or performance drop off. Although most refer to these frames in general terms as ‘alloy’ if we are being pedantic then strictly speaking this is wrong, as steel is an alloy of carbon and iron, titanium is normally aluminum and vanadium, for example Van Nicholas use 3% Aluminium, 2.5% Vanadium and 94.5 Titanium, which they simply list as 3/2.5

Frames made of Carbon:With sufficient research and development can result in a bike that is comfortable, very light and efficient at transferring energy into propulsion as the material does not flex as much as other materials. Although strong they can be more delicate, where other materials dent, Carbon is more likely to crack, although I don't believe that they are as delicate as many fear them to be, quite a few have been ridden for a few years now and still going strong. Most common rider is a racing cyclist or someone who still likes to have a ‘best bike’ that can to an extent have a more precious existence than say audax or touring bike, where robustness may be more of a consideration. Most production high end ‘Race’ and ‘Sportive’ bikes will these days use carbon frames, we are also starting to see this technology filter down into the mid price range models. In recent years high end mountain bikes have also started to use Carbon frames, note they are not road bikes with different geometry, they are designed to be far more robust and impact resistant than road bikes for obvious reasons.

Frames made of Steel : Very durable (if built correctly) with low performance drop off with age. These days still a popular choice for club riders who like to know that their frame has been built in the traditional way by craftsmen. Production bikes built with steel are less common, although it remains popular with the companies that still cater for touring bikes.

Many cyclist like the fact that they are having something built often to their own specification, you can personalise your frame with your own braze on items, light bosses, extra bottle bosses etc, you can even chose your own colour. In the past all top quality frames were purchased this way, as it was how you got exactly what you wanted, both in quality and especially frame size. The old diamond shape frame being less adaptable in terms of variations in riding position than the modern sloping top tube frames; even Lance Armstrong used an off the peg frame size. Although I fall into this category, as in uses as steel frame, not Lance Armstrong, I have to admit that modern off the peg frames are now so good both in terms of production quality and the flexibility that the modern geometry gives you to achieve the perfect riding position, that the necessity to have a bike made to measure is less of an issue. In more recent years steel frames are starting to make something of a come back, as many realise that in many ways steel is a better option than aluminium alloy, especially when it comes to comfort.

Frames made of Titanium : Becoming more popular, virtually no performance drop as they don’t even rust, comfortable, light, yet robust. Performance wise not quite as responsive as carbon or alloy (alloy when new that is), although really it is that not far off, some pro riders now even use Titanium like Magnus Bakstedt a former Paris Roubaix winner, other Pro Teams used Titanium frames painted up to look like normal production bikes of their team sponsors, often used in races where comfort can become an issue, for example over the cobbles of the Paris Roubaix, as riders are bashed about so much it can lead to fatigue.

The down side is that Titanium is very hard to work/build with; so most don't! On the upside because of this the workman ship simply has to be of top quality and it shows, most Titanium frames do look and are very well made. Most common used when someone wants a fast, responsive, light comfortable yet robust, durable bike and of course where price is not so much of an issue. Titanium is therefore and ideal choice for longer day rides/audax/touring/sportive bikes.

Frame material conclusion :, Opinion is often much divided when it comes to frame materials and if it effects how the bike rides or not. Many will state that they can tell a huge difference and by the same token many will state that the frame material makes no difference at all. I would say I fall somewhere between both, I have ridden a huge variety over the years, when riding bikes similar in set up in nearly every respect apart from the frame material I would say that I can't tell a huge difference, but I can feel more than none that's for sure.

A quality designer and manufacturer will be sensitive to the material they have used, so I would expect the bike to perform how it is supposed to and give you good long service, regardless of what it is made of. So although the frame material is indeed a consideration I believe that many are far more concerned about what they should or shouldn't use than perhaps they need be.

Paul_Smith
www.corridori.co.uk

 

[PpPete]

Maybe something like this and transfer the Ultegra groupset from the Scott ?
953 should give you the comfort you're looking for - without being significantly heavier than an off-the-peg carbon, and you'll not have to worry about durability.

Titanium is still evolving...it is very difficult to make tubing out of the strongest Titanum alloys.... I'd wait until Ti-6Al-4V tubing becomes reliably available, significantly stronger than Ti-3Al-2.5V which is what most Ti tubing is now (although of course any machined components are Ti-6Al-4V already)

Oh yes and if you have it unpainted you can get a better shine on stainless steel than you can on Titanium !

 

[jay clock]

Thanks for the comments. I am not sure I am ready for the Rourke route. I have posted another query here http://www.cyclechat.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?p=610787 with a couple of specific bikes I am looking at

 

[wyno70]

Jay, I had much the same dilemma as you, roughly same size and weight (81kg, 5ft 9) and do triathlons too. I'm also going up to half ironman this year. I'm not fast by any stretch of the imagination and my primary consideration with the new bike was comfort as I'm going to be doing more long distance stuff in future.

To give you an idea of my level, my aim is to finish an olympic under 3 hours. I have always managed that, with my fastest time being 2 45 (usually 2 55).

I had a Giant TCR C3 (all carbon with Shimano kit) and found it a bit harsh after more than 2 hours on the bike, so fine for Olympic but may have given me problems on anything much longer.

I've just bought a Van Nicholas Euros in early February, all Ultegra and as well as looking the business, it's a great bike. I haven't been out on it too much (any great distance) as yet, because she's all shiny and lovely and I don't want to get all the winter crap on her, so am waiting for a load of rain to wash all the salt away!!!!

I'd certainly recommend it, however, it's probably going to come in at the top end of your budget, given the current euro/sterling rate.

While I'm on the subject, I did buy the bike from Paul Smith at Corridori (1st reply to your post), who I can't recommend highly enough. Paul knows Van Nicholas inside out and was top class in giving me help and advice on frame size, components, extra's etc, along with sorting set up etc.

Another big advantage of the Van Nicholas (if you are bothered by this) is that they don't change spec every year (as most manufacturers do), so your bike won't be out of date come the launch of all 2010 models!!!

If you want full carbon, the bikes I considered were Specialized Roubaix Elite and Cannondale Synapse, which will both fall within your budget. I fell in love with the Van Nicholas, simply because it was a bit different and I could specify every component to what I wanted, rather than simply buying an 'off the shelf' bike.

Both the Van Nicholas and Paul at Corridori come highly recommended by me!!!

Thanks for your help Paul.

Hope that helps Jay.

 

[jay clock]

Thanks for the comprehensive comments. have just spoken to Paul at some length so now the VN are on the list to be considered as well!

 

[jayce]

have alook at the dolan mythos 12k carbon frame good spec and a very nice bike