n+1 - fast tourer

[srw]

Good people of the forum, help me to narrow down my choices!

I want a fast tourer/audax bike/winter bike, capable of carrying me all day in comfort at a reasonable lick. I won't need to carry a lot of stuff - I have other bikes to do that. I don't want to start racing or sportiving in any serious way, and have no interest in going all-guns-blazing with my bum in the air and sufffering from road vibrations. I also have no interest at all in playing with components, building my own, spending hours in a workshop (ever), or keeping on fiddling until something is just so. My local patch is Buckinghamshire, so we're talking hills, potholes and lousy road repairs.

Everyone seems to have what they claim is a solution, but I don't know what questions to ask. And these days there are so many variations on what I used to know as "5 gears or 10" that I am utterly bewildered - 105, Tiagra, Viagra? Who cares? I want some gears! I'm quite happy with my bar-end shifters, and don't understand why anyone would want to change one gear at a time at the flick of a finger when you can go across the whole range at the flick of a finger.

My cycling background is mainly utility and touring - Brompton, Boris bike, Raven Discovery tandem, Dawes Sardar (the old drop-handlebar steel version). But I'm beginning to get fitter and faster and want to push myself a bit, both in distance and in speed. My budget is, if not unlimited, generous.

The sorts of things I'm looking at at the moment:

Thorn Audax Mk3. Roberts custom-built. Sabbath September. Condor Fratello. Thorn Raven Sport Tour - the left-field choice. An armchair on wheels - the really left-field choice. Specialized Roubaix - the lemming choice.

So. What are the killer questions I need to ask? And what are the killer answers to look for.

 

[TheBoyBilly]

The Tifosi CK7 Audax Classic got a very good review in one of the recent bike mags (Cycling Active I think) All-day comfort, a good finishing kit and reliabilty for a very reasonable price. Parker International are selling it in all sizes for £883 & Chicken Cycles for £879.99 (both Veloce version)
A thing of real beauty

OR

If you REALLY want bar-end shifters the same magazine thought highly of the Pearson Compass

Bill

 

[Jerry Atrik]

Ive also got a Dawes Sardar but have just took delivery of a Spesh Tricross Sport for winter commute and faster light touring , but if i had to choose between the two the Sardar would win hands down .

 

[PpPete]

If Sabbath September is in there - also consider Van Nic Amazon and Yukon, and maybe even Enigma Etape. Or a Burls custom job.

FWIW I'd like a n+1 in same class as you ...., but unlike you I'm an incurable tinkerer & love trying all sorts of different components & configurations. I've been swopping bits & bobs on and off various bikes until I pretty much know what I want (although it changes every few weeks)

I would build it up myself from F&F but at the moment its a standard Yukon with Campag Triple drive train.... but I'll sell the stock wheels straight away, and put some of my own handbuilts on. Chances of affording it anytime soon - zero,

 

[srw]

You're supposed to be helping me narrow down my choices!

 

[MacB]

Obviously a lot of possible answers to this, I'd try to narrow down certain specifics:-

1. tyre clearances and frame fittings - if you want to run bigger tyres, a rack, full mudguards this will make some dicisons for you

2. frame material - if you wanted bigger tyres then that may have ruled out carbon offering so leaves alu, steel and ti

3. braking - do you want rim or disc and, if rim, what type, again tyre clearances will impact this

4. gearing - hub gears are possible(you can put the shifter in the bar end position easily) for deraillers you also need to decide double, triple and rear spacing of frame may make some decisions for you

If you're not too concerned re price, but want touring clearances with a more sportive ride, then I'd have something built, plenty of choice in steel and a fair few in titanium, I'm currently having one done by Burls in ti and that will be about £1k for the frame only, they can build up complete bikes as well. But that's to serve dual purpose as commuter and weekend bike, hence bigger clearances. If you're happy with nothing bigger than a 32mm tyre then there are more off the shelf options.

If bigger tyres aren't a must then my choice, if it was not intended for any dual purposes etc, ie a pure weekend, unladen, beast for faster riding then I'm very taken with these:-

http://volagi.com/bikes

takes up to a 28mm tyre, disc brakes, accepts mudguards, geometry is very Spesh Roubaix, claims a more compliant ride and bloody light. Only slight negative is the 130mm rear spacing as there are limited 130mm disc hubs around, but that's probably going to be changing quite quickly.

 

[Aperitif]

Planet X Dura-Ace armchair...

 

[Aperitif]

Or a superMario special perhaps? The RB1000

 

[Gerry Attrick]

If you are not exactly sure what you want, I would recommend that you go down the custom build route. A decent builder will not expect you to have all the technical details, but he will ask you lots of questions to ensure that you get what you need for the type of riding you intend.

If Lincolnshire is not too far, then I would wholeheartedly recommend Dave Yates. He built tourers for Mrs A and myself and they are he most comfortable bikes imaginable. He builds only in steel, but he will build using the most appropriate grades of steel for the job on hand.

 

[mercurykev]

I have two Audax MK3s and a Sabbath September and although they are all good bikes, if I had to choose one to do everything that you describe, I'd take the September. It is really comfortable over distance, it's pretty fast, while being very stable, and it's versatile - I use it as my main audax machine but have chucked on a rack and used it for a fully loaded camping trip (18kg in two panniers).

If you can afford it, I'd thoroughly recommend a Titanium audax bike - September, Yukon, whatever and I wouldn't discount integrated shifter/brakes. Get yourself some Campag Ergos, Chorus or Record, and you can rip up the cassette from a single flick of your thumb from the comfort of your brake hoods

 

[P.H]

I'd recommend a visit to Paul Herwitt, here's why;

A full fitting service on his jig, a good idea anyway if it's your first bike of this type. Then some of the bike choices, Hewitt Chiltern a steel Audax bike, Custom Hewitt frame, Hewitt Alpine a Carbon Audax bike, Van Nicholas, Enigma or September off the peg or custom built based on the fitting session. I don't know anyone else who offers this range, he starts with the idea that there's no point paying for custom if what you want is already available off the shelf, but if you do need custom he'll see you get it from the right place. His advice always seems sound, he will tell you where to save money as well as where to spend it, his prices are very reasonable though not bargain basement and the wheels he builds are as good as you'll get anywhere.

 

[Garz]

I recently got an Enigma Etape and it is a pleasure to ride. It can be used for light touring and is perfect for my longer sportives or just to use in general especially in the winter accommodating mudguards. I can't vouch for the other titanium alternatives however on all the write-ups on the cycling magazines they are all getting praised equally.

Oh and to add to the above post I got mine built by Paul Hewitt's outfit, he gave me a very competitive package with hand-built wheels and campag groupset. Highly recommended!

 

[gbs]

FWIW, and that may not be a great amount because of my newbiness, I endorse Ppete's comment. VN Yukon with campag triple works well for me as a general road workhorse and for yr specific objective. Ti is certainly better than c/f or al on FNRtt with potential frame contact on trains or at rest spots and for all day rides on rough lanes.

I have never ridden a steel frame but I believe that on a like for like basis ti will lighter and of course you would free of concern re damage to paint finish.

 

[rb58]

I love my Thorn Mk3 so much I sold my other bikes. All day comfort, yet quick enough for the kind of riding I do.

........ but am now in N+1 frame of mind. I was pretty much settled on the Enigma Etape until I saw the Planet X earlier today.

 

[srw]

Thanks for all the input so far. I think MacB's right - I need to do a systematic analysis!

Tyre width
My inclination is to go for wider rather than narrower. My solo bike experience is 37mm width on both 26" and 18" wheels. I'm likely to be mainly on British rough tarmac with the occasional foray onto sustrans-style hard-packed sand/gravel. Doing a bit of reading it appears that 28mm is probably most appropriate.

Frame material
The consensus seems to be that carbon and Aluminium are going to be harsher and less durable than steel and titanium, but lighter. Since comfort and durability are important, that probably pushes me towards something more traditional. Titanium looks nice and is lighter than steel by a kilo or so and won't rust but is very expensive. And I'm not convinced that a kilo or so off the bike frame is going to do a great deal - a kilo is what I'll put on the bike when I fill a couple of bottles.

Transmission
I've got lost. The reviews of the Raven Sport Tour suggest that it's not as "sporty" as it might be - suggesting that derailleur is going to be better than Rohloff if I want a sportier bike. Beyond that, the competing claims of Shimano, SRAM, Campag and the different grades of each bewilder me. I want something durable, easy to maintain and adjust and with a wide range of gears. Mrs w has a bike with some variety of integrated brake lever and gear lever. Having tried it I'm not entirely convinced that the advantages outweigh the apparent maintenance problems.

Maybe MacB's other thought - that I should find a custom frame maker - is the sensible one.

It may well be that