My impulse-purchased turkey :(

[bonzobanana]

I seem to have missed the bit with the price paid by skimming the thread but depending on price could be an absolute bargain based on the haul of components or you could have paid too much. Looks a really nice bike to me needing a bit of light restoration. I personally don't go for full restoration I like to a bike to look a bit rough to deter thieves and really for me its about how the bike rides and whether I enjoy riding it rather than a some sort of statement to the world on how to prejudge me. I basically like well serviced and adjusted tatty bikes because they are still there when I come out of the shop etc. Yes its worse than expected but I'd still assess the overall purchase by the price paid.

I find it very satisfying when I see old bikes in still in use. So many are obsessed with having new and just to see a bike still being used that is decades old seems very positive to me. Two old rubbish or broken bikes can be merged to make one great old bike. So even if the frame is difficult to re-use there looks like plenty of other very decent components.

 

[wafter]

The crack, like others have put, may just be paint. I'd suggest removing the paint at that point to check.

You've got some decent-ish wheels, a groupset and an interesting stem at the least - depending upon what you paid that may compensate quite a way.

My "catalogue of horrors" was bought last year; a flat-bar converted Olagnero. Looked decent value for £40 but the seller forgot to tell me the seatpost was stuck. And that it was rusty throughout. I've attempted all methods to remove the seatpost and am slowly cutting chunks away when I get the chance as it's over 300mm into the frame. If all else fails I'll similarly have a groupset plus some wheels and other bits.

@DCLane - thanks and yes, it wasn't big money to start with and as you suggest there's some value left in the components. Your project looks like a score but the seatpost sounds like a nightmare (I hate that sinking feeling of getting something home only to find a significant issue that you'd missed). 300mm sounds like an absolute nightmare - how are you cutting it out - running a hacksaw down the internal length of the seatpost?

I measured mine last night; it's a 300mm post with about 190mm trapped inside the frame. More violence was administered but got me nowhere.. good luck with your anyway - I'll keep an eye on your thread

@All uphill - granted it certainly looks nice!

Enlarging the hole is certainly something I'll consider if it's not cracked (if it is it'd need a massive hole to remove all of the crack). I'm happy to ride as-is to shake it down but as I posted earlier; I want this as the basis of a project / a treat to turn into something nice, so I have little interest in doing it on the cheap. Really everything revolves around the frame - if I can ensure it's sound and get it refinished to a decent standard without spending enormous amounts, the outlay on some decent mid-range components doesn't really concern me too much as they'd always be transferrible to another platform / shouldn't lose me much money (especially if bought used).

I was looking at 105 groupsets from China, and it appears that you can get a (pretty much) full mech. setup for less than £500..


@rogerzilla - ta; I appreciate your point about the differential thermal expansion characteristics of both materials. My thinking is / was that if there's a bond between the seatpost and tube that the difference in axial expansion between them when heated should act to free it off (I've had success with thermally-cycling seized parts in the past while bleeding penetrating oil into the joint). However, having read up a bit more on the problem it seems the primary mechanism in this case is the less-dense ally oxide expanding into the gap between the two parts and causing a mechanical interference - which I agree heat probably won't do much to resolve.

I have read that heat will cause ally hydroxide to lose some of its moisture content, however if this is the case it's not worked sufficiently on this occasion! I'll also resist the urge to tip any more lubricants down the post as I suspect they won't really achieve a lot given the probable mechanism keeping the post captive.

Thanks for the link - truth be told I'm a bit cautious about using caustic soda (sodium hydroxide) as apparently it doesn't play too nicely with steel, and IIRC the wall on the seatpost is pretty beefy (maybe 4mm) so that's a lot of aluminium to dissolve!

My inner engineer likes the idea of lashing up some sort of depth-limited hacksaw blade holder so I can slit the tube along its length and collapse it in on itself.. however considering the amount of far more important jobs that currently aren't getting done, this is unlikely..

@GuyBoden - thanks for the link; looks pretty comprehensive Most of your suggestions have been covered in my post above and as per my previous post - essentially the seatpost's coming out or the bike's going!

@Cycleops - as it happens I do have a fair amount of pretty strong phosphoric acid (and tbh there's a bit of internal corrosion inside the frame so it'll probably want some of this sloshing around inside anyway) however I'm not sure how effective this is likely to be in dissolving what's keeping the seatpost stuck in..

 

[wafter]

I seem to have missed the bit with the price paid by skimming the thread but depending on price could be an absolute bargain based on the haul of components or you could have paid too much. Looks a really nice bike to me needing a bit of light restoration. I personally don't go for full restoration I like to a bike to look a bit rough to deter thieves and really for me its about how the bike rides and whether I enjoy riding it rather than a some sort of statement to the world on how to prejudge me. I basically like well serviced and adjusted tatty bikes because they are still there when I come out of the shop etc. Yes its worse than expected but I'd still assess the overall purchase by the price paid.

I find it very satisfying when I see old bikes in still in use. So many are obsessed with having new and just to see a bike still being used that is decades old seems very positive to me. Two old rubbish or broken bikes can be merged to make one great old bike. So even if the frame is difficult to re-use there looks like plenty of other very decent components.

No price has been disclosed but it wasn't enough to make me really rue the purchase and based on ebay prices it's probably comparable to the used value of the components; give or take.

As much as I absolutely agree about making use of old stuff, this bike is tatty and was bought specifically for the purpose of making it into something nice that I really take pleasure in owning. I like nice things and tbh this isn't in any way about attempting to manipulate how others perceive me

As for thievability this shouldn't be an issue as the bike would be for "best use / leisure ride"; so just like my CdF it would never be left locked up / unattended anywhere for fear of theft or damage. I have my tatty (but still very much-loved) old Raleigh Routier for utility tasks that require it to be left locked up for any length of time

Ultimately I want the aesthetic and ride characteristics of an nice old traditionally-styled steel frame, with the functionality and versatility of a modern groupset.. off the shelf options are limited and expensive (probably £2k+) while many still aren't really the spec I want due to the use of composite forks or compact geometry with sloping top tubes.

I reckon I could potentially make something decent for a grand, and worst-case if it didn't pan out with the frame I'd still have most of that value retained in the components I'd bolted to it... although of course I'd do my best to ensure the frame was sound and suitable before throwing any significant amount of money at it.

 

[si_c]

Looks to me like you've got a winner on your hands with that frame, I bought a vintage Peugeot as my first proper road bike and restored it, the frame and components with wheels cost me about £80 and I promptly spent £160 having it professionally stripped and enamelled, worth every penny.

If you are planning on repainting the frame anyway, two things I'd suggest, taking a good set of photos from all angles before you do (helps if you want to get decals reproduced later and with colour matching) and then sand the paint at the seatpost to see if that crack does go through the metal or is just paint (not a problem if it does, but you'll need to get the frame repaired).

Then I'd use the causic soda approach to removing the seatpost, it's relatively quick to do and not particularly expensive.

 

[freiston]

Yet another post saying the crack looks like it might just be in the paint.

Stuck seatpost aside, things don't look that bad to me. Regarding the brazed on pump fittings - the peg on the back of the head tube with no corresponding fitting at the seat tube end is quite usual in my experience (indeed, my current bike is like that) - the peg holds the handle end of a frame-fitting pump (the handle being shaped to marry with the head tube, with a hole for the peg to engage) whilst the other end of the pump is shaped to be held into the junction of the seat and top tube by the force of the spring. At least that's the way I fitted my Zefal 4 Rev 88 - it does have a hole in the other end too which could be engaged by the peg, and I have seen pumps fitted with the handle at the seat end.

 

[GuyBoden]

If the seat post is too much work, maybe make a bid on this nice 531 frame 57cm in Bristol:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/154723914987?hash=item24064394eb:g:QdoAAOSwbKhho6nW

(Wrap around seat post stays)

 

[Pale Rider]

If the seat post is too much work, maybe make a bid on this nice 531 frame 57cm in Bristol:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/154723914987?hash=item24064394eb:g:QdoAAOSwbKhho6nW

(Wrap around seat post stays)

View attachment 620336

I see the same seller offers 'water bottle mounting clips' for £8.

Just as well, given the frame appears to have very few bosses.

 

[Gunk]

My preferred method.

Mine too, works every time.

 

[wafter]

Looks to me like you've got a winner on your hands with that frame, I bought a vintage Peugeot as my first proper road bike and restored it, the frame and components with wheels cost me about £80 and I promptly spent £160 having it professionally stripped and enamelled, worth every penny.

If you are planning on repainting the frame anyway, two things I'd suggest, taking a good set of photos from all angles before you do (helps if you want to get decals reproduced later and with colour matching) and then sand the paint at the seatpost to see if that crack does go through the metal or is just paint (not a problem if it does, but you'll need to get the frame repaired).

Then I'd use the causic soda approach to removing the seatpost, it's relatively quick to do and not particularly expensive.

Thanks - I appreciate your optimism and well done for resurrecting another worthy steel frame

Of course, before I commit to anything the frame will be stripped to inspect the severity of the "crack" - I hope it's just the paint as others have suggested, however (I hope!) time will tell.

Yet another post saying the crack looks like it might just be in the paint.

Stuck seatpost aside, things don't look that bad to me. Regarding the brazed on pump fittings - the peg on the back of the head tube with no corresponding fitting at the seat tube end is quite usual in my experience (indeed, my current bike is like that) - the peg holds the handle end of a frame-fitting pump (the handle being shaped to marry with the head tube, with a hole for the peg to engage) whilst the other end of the pump is shaped to be held into the junction of the seat and top tube by the force of the spring. At least that's the way I fitted my Zefal 4 Rev 88 - it does have a hole in the other end too which could be engaged by the peg, and I have seen pumps fitted with the handle at the seat end.

Thanks - give the collective optimism in this thread I'm going to be gutted if the frame turns out to be cracked

Ta for the guidance on the pump mount - was totally oblivious to this possibilty although it makes sense. That makes it a less easy choice to remove it; while on the one hand it's pretty much useless considering my preference to carry a mini-pump in the rucksack; on the other it'd ruin the originality; which would be a shame.

Will give it some thought - might all be a moot point anyway if the frame turns out to be cracked!

If the seat post is too much work, maybe make a bid on this nice 531 frame 57cm in Bristol:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/154723914987?hash=item24064394eb:g:QdoAAOSwbKhho6nW

(Wrap around seat post stays)

View attachment 620336

Thanks for the thought; although nice as it looks, it appears not so well suited to my intended application..



So, not a lot's been achieved on the bike... it's right at the bottom at my priorities list; however has been the only thing I've managed to motivate myself to have a half-hearted prod at.

In summary:

- The seatpost's been subjected to a bit more abuse but refuses to budge. Plan is to plug the post, invert the bike and fill the seatpost tube with paraffin in the hope that some will bleed into the corrosion and free it off a bit, but I'm dubious and currently lack the drive to find a method of sealing the tube.

- The quill stem is also convincingly seized; have bled a bit of paraffin into that too but it so far refuses to budge; so probably wants similar treatment to that planned for the seatpost.

- I've inspected the rear cassette and found it to be a 12-25; not ideal for my abilities especially given the fat chainring.

- I've had a bit more of a look at the front wheel; which looks pretty good other than the sloppy hub bearings and fact that some muppet appears to have had grips on the end caps in the past. There's currently a matching rear one on ebay; however it seems pretty popular and I'm not sure I'd want to pay as much as others might.. plus of course it'll still only have a 9/10 (definitely not 11) speed hub.

- The rear wheel appears to be a Xero XSR-4; which seems to be reasonably well regarded but were OEM on some Giants and evidently not in the same league as the Rolf on the front.

- There appears to be another "crack" near to the existing one in the seat tube; which tbh I find heartening as this seems to be the result of the heat it's been subjected to stressing the paint, rather than anything structural... I'd certainly not expect steel to behave in this way (if the existing damage is a crack in the frame I'd expect this to propagate rather than for another to start from an area of relatively low stress so near to it).

- The chain has been checked for wear and miraculously seems fine; so at least there's that!


As usual the indecision rolls on and given the state the bike's in (as well as it's potentially less-than-favourable frame geometry for my body proportions) I wonder whether I'd just be better off cutting my losses and punting it on...

 

[wafter]

In other news, I had my eye on a single rear Rolf Vector Pro wheel on ebay in the hope of scoring a matched pair; however it went for over a ton which was more than I was willing to spend (especially considering the hub is only 10sp compatable).

Looks like I might punt on both wheels and replace wht a more modern 11sp pair. If I ever get out the siezed bits. Which is looking increasingly unlikely..

 

[biggs682]

How have I missed this thread.
What a cracking looking bike @wafter
Shame about the seized bits , stems I have cut off just above the lock nut and then drilled them out using a 22mm drill bit as long as you are steady and slow it's fine.

Seatposts I have had a few and can honestly say that they are a pain , I have tried twisting , freezing , warming , coca cola , cutting them out after removing the top bit and then a friend had the same problem and he machined up a cutting device that has worked on a couple of bikes but relys on a 27 mm post with a certain id .

Then there is The seat post man not sure how he does it but just search on Google.

Or send it all to a frame builder and they should be able to sort it all out.

Oh and good luck

 

[wafter]

How have I missed this thread.
What a cracking looking bike @wafter
Shame about the seized bits , stems I have cut off just above the lock nut and then drilled them out using a 22mm drill bit as long as you are steady and slow it's fine.

Seatposts I have had a few and can honestly say that they are a pain , I have tried twisting , freezing , warming , coca cola , cutting them out after removing the top bit and then a friend had the same problem and he machined up a cutting device that has worked on a couple of bikes but relys on a 27 mm post with a certain id .

Then there is The seat post man not sure how he does it but just search on Google.

Or send it all to a frame builder and they should be able to sort it all out.

Oh and good luck

Thanks

I agree about the looks, however they hide a multitude of sins and I think part of the reason it looks good are the relatively long and low frame proportions; which really don't suit my build..

Ta for the thought about the stem - I'd not thought about drilling it out but I guess it has to be more viable than the seatpost. Interesting that you mention a tool - I have a fairly well-formed idea of how you could build one around a hacksaw blade that was depth-limited and threfore shouldn't harm the frame; however I lack the ability to make one and don't really want to spend the money getting one machined..

I think the seatpost man charges about £80 + carriage, so really it's a non-starter on cost grounds. I do / did plan on getting it refinished, however really want to ride it first for a while to ensure that nothing else is ruined and that I can adjust the geometry sufficiently to fit me.

While it first appeared somewhat drastic, caustic soda is becoming increasingly appealing due to its cost and uncompromising nature... although I don't like the idea of the mess and am still trying to get my head around how exactly to apply it to minimise this - thinking maybe plug the seatpost near the top, invert the frame and squirt a load in through the bottle mount...? I guess it would also be prudent to replace the bottom bracket; hower that will require the purchase of another tool...

I guess if I pulled my finger out / it's not already too late it could make a good project to maximise my avoidance of the festive period..

For now it remains in the naughty corner of the shed / on top of the ever-growing pile of "non-straightforward things to do" at the back of my mind