Motorsports Thread

[Bonefish Blues]

I reckon Lewis's 7 should have an asterisk, same as Verstappen's does.

 

[BrumJim]

I reckon Lewis's 7 should have an asterisk, same as Verstappen's does.

Whose shouldn't?

 

[icowden]

Is Mazepin any worse that these guys?
Could every billionaire bankroll their son to an F1 seat if given the best equipment for 15 years in the junior formulas? I genuinely don’t have any idea how hard it is for an average driver to learn to be good.
There has to be some natural talent.

Well if we look at his career, his best place in karting over 5 years was 2nd in the Karting world championship in 2014. He only finished above 10th 6 times. He was mostly towards the back. He continued in the same vein in Formula 3 and Formula 2. In 2019 and 2020 he actually managed to finish 3rd and 5th in F3 and F2 respectively, and he did get a 2nd place in GP3 in 2018 (probably his most successful season with 4 wins and three 2nds), but otherwise was toward the back.

If we compare with Hamilton, he won his first 3 karting seasons from 1995-7, won again in 1999 and got a 2nd place, won twice in 2000. Moved to Formula Renault where he consistently finished at the top of the field for 2001-2, and got a 1st in 2003, 2004 another 1st, 2004-2006 3 wins in F3 and GP2, then onto almost 3 WDCs in a row for F1. Then the quiet years where he finished in the top5, then another 6 wdcs and two seconds.

So yes, you can pay for someone to be a mediocre (at best) driver and get them to the top flight, but they are never going to compete with someone who has talent and skill. If you put Mazepin in a Mercedes I very much doubt that he'd do a George Russell with it and look in danger of winning.

 

[Reynard]

Is Mazepin any worse that these guys?

Could every billionaire bankroll their son to an F1 seat if given the best equipment for 15 years in the junior formulas? I genuinely don’t have any idea how hard it is for an average driver to learn to be good.
There has to be some natural talent.

Money and being in the right place at the right time. As has always been the case in motor racing, right since the very beginning. Rodriguez brothers, anyone? It wasn't long before both were dead.

Either you get to the top through talent or you get to the top through money, although in the last couple of decades, that balance has definitely shifted much more towards money. Talent really only plays a very small part.

My historian friend recently told me a story of a very wealthy magnate who forced his son to race in F3000 in the late 1980s with the threat of inheritance consequences if he didn't. My friend didn't name names unfortunately, but he'd had the information from multiple reliable sources.

It's far less risky now, though, with the cars and circuits being that much safer than they used to be, and if Papa has a bottomless pit of money, why not live their dreams through their little boys. In the past, drivers like Mazepin would have been weeded out by injury or death.

As for Paul Stewart and Justin Bell, no amount of sponsorship money could counterbalance their lack of talent. Paul did get to F3000, but spent most of that time scratching around at the back. I know remember Justin raced in FVL back in the day, but I don't recall him racing in F3. I think Vauxhall Lotus was about as far as he got.

 

[Deleted member 26715]

Haas has kicked the driver & sponsor down the road, they must have a replacement sponsor lined up or it wouldn't have happened, hopefully it comes without strings of a driver & they are free to chose.

 

[Reynard]

Inevitable, really... There was just far too much of a stink surrounding the situation. Pietro Fittipaldi or Oscar Piastri seem to be the names being bandied about.

Mazepin is saying it's unfair he's been sacked, but alas, Russia (and those close to the government) have made their bed, and now they have to lie in it. Oh what a pity...

 

[icowden]

Mazepin is saying it's unfair he's been sacked, but alas, Russia (and those close to the government) have made their bed, and now they have to lie in it. Oh what a pity...

Even if he wasn't being sacked for "being russian" he'd be sacked for "not bringing the money to the team any more, so we are going with a better driver".

 

[figbat]

Inevitable, really... There was just far too much of a stink surrounding the situation. Pietro Fittipaldi or Oscar Piastri seem to be the names being bandied about.

Mazepin is saying it's unfair he's been sacked, but alas, Russia (and those close to the government) have made their bed, and now they have to lie in it. Oh what a pity...

Whilst it does seem unfair to the competitors, ultimately the money flows back to Russia if they are competing - the only way to be sure is to cut the flow at source.

 

[Reynard]

Even if he wasn't being sacked for "being russian" he'd be sacked for "not bringing the money to the team any more, so we are going with a better driver".

And in any case, daddy's roubles are only worth half of what they were - and becoming more worthless by the day.

 

[Reynard]

Whilst it does seem unfair to the competitors, ultimately the money flows back to Russia if they are competing - the only way to be sure is to cut the flow at source.

Danil Kvyat was going on about this yesterday - he's racing in the WEC these days. There is also a fairly successful Russian-run team in the WEC, so they'll be hit too.

Cultural and sporting sanctions tie into the financial ones through sponsorship, TV deals etc. After UEFA cut ties with Gazprom, the company's value fell by 90-something percent. Ouch.

 

[Bonefish Blues]

And in any case, daddy's roubles are only worth half of what they were - and becoming more worthless by the day.

Definitely trouble at t' mill.

 

[matticus]

Even if he wasn't being sacked for "being russian" he'd be sacked for "not bringing the money to the team any more, so we are going with a better driver".

Good point.
The Russian ban/cancel/sanction is a painful thing all-round: I have some sympathy for russians trying to earn an honest living abroad, with no associations to the Putin dictatorship. BUT: in this case he's a very lucky boy to have all that money behind him in the first place - his "job" is just like a rich guy's hobby really. Live by the free market, die by it.

 

[Reynard]

It cuts both ways.

My historian friend has numerous contacts in the historic racing scene here in the UK, and says that the sanctions will affect this side of things too - as there are competitors who make a living and fund their racing and the restoration of cars through buying and selling Russian debt & bonds.

And given that the major financial houses have now reclassified Russian bonds as junk...

 

[FishFright]

It cuts both ways.

My historian friend has numerous contacts in the historic racing scene here in the UK, and says that the sanctions will affect this side of things too - as there are competitors who make a living and fund their racing and the restoration of cars through buying and selling Russian debt & bonds.

And given that the major financial houses have now reclassified Russian bonds as junk...

Dodgy investments can go up or down . Past performance of dodgy money is no guarantee of it not being worth sweet Fanny Adams when the hangover kicks in.

 

[Reynard]

Dodgy investments can go up or down . Past performance of dodgy money is no guarantee of it not being worth sweet Fanny Adams when the hangover kicks in.

Any investment, for that matter, not just the dodgy ones. There is always an element of risk involved. And the saying goes that to make a fortune in motorsport, you need to start with an even bigger fortune.

Mind you, soon it will be cheaper to use rouble bank notes instead of toilet roll...