Motorbike incident

[Clive Atton]

I would suggest that you are wrong.

Sorry, I am definitely right.

 

[Jezston]

It can be difficult to judge the speed of a motorbike as a cyclist because the noise makes them seem faster, however, the vast majority of motorcyclists that I see when I am driving are breaking the speed limit, and often by a considerable margin. It's now become something of a joke between myself and Mrs TF when we see a motorbike obeying the speed limit and riding sensibly. At the weekend we were competing in a hill climb on our bikes up Snake Pass and were passed over the course of the morning by what seemed like over a hundred motorbikes coming out of Glossop nearly all of them travelling at high speeds. Not a comfortable experience for the cyclists.

Let's not get into generalizations people. I'm sure 'a lot' do it, much like 'a lot' of cyclists jump red lights, ride on the pavement etc, but 'a lot' doesn't necessarily mean 'most' let alone 'all'.

People behaving themselves are rarely noticed.

 

[Clive Atton]

Quote from HC:
'give motorcyclists, cyclists and horse riders at least as much room as you would when overtaking a car (see Rules 211-215)'.
The photo in the HC shows the overtaking car almost completely in the other lane giving probably about 6ft of room for the cyclist (who could be a foot over towards the gutter. If this is the space required to overtake in a car then on that particular road, if it was a another car being overtaken the overtaker would need to be on the opposite pavement (like many bloody cyclists!!). Overtaking another car can easily be accomplished with a gap of four to five feet. The HC says 'move quickly past the vehicle you are overtaking, once you have started to overtake. Allow plenty of room. Move back to the left as soon as you can but do not cut in'. Nowhere does it give a specific distance
When setting out on a 300 mile journey in a car, and you get a mile down the road and you are stuck behind a cyclist doing 10mph, do all you drivers follow it for miles waiting until you can overtake on the other side of the road? I put it to the defendants Ma'Lord that the vast majority would wait until they could go past leaving a three or four foot gap and then pass quite safely.
Another point is this, if it is only safe for ALL vehicles on the road to pass a cyclist on the wrong side of the road, why do all the macho hypocrites with helmet cams on this forum put videos of themselves hurtling past other (vulnerable) cyclists with only a couple of feet clearance - surely this must be illegal!

 

[Jezston]

Quote from HC: 'give motorcyclists, cyclists and horse riders at least as much room as you would when overtaking a car (see Rules 211-215)'. The photo in the HC shows the overtaking car almost completely in the other lane giving probably about 6ft of room for the cyclist ...

With you so far.

(who could be a foot over towards the gutter.

Aaand I'm out.

I'm not sure why you seem to think we are all supposed to be good little peons who doff our caps and move out of the way of the superior and more important car.

If I'm on a quiet back road and it appears I'm holding people up going 10mph up a hill, then when I find a safe place to pull in I'll let people overtake. If there isn't a safe place, then I won't, and if someone tries to bully their way past me putting my safety at risk I'll have no sympathy.

Another point is this, if it is only safe for ALL vehicles on the road to pass a cyclist on the wrong side of the road, why do all the macho hypocrites with helmet cams on this forum put videos of themselves hurtling past other (vulnerable) cyclists with only a couple of feet clearance - surely this must be illegal!

Now you're just being offensive. Care to give examples, and cite the relevant sections of the highway code being broken?

 

[As Easy As Riding A Bike]

When setting out on a 300 mile journey in a car, and you get a mile down the road and you are stuck behind a cyclist doing 10mph, do all you drivers follow it for miles waiting until you can overtake on the other side of the road? I put it to the defendants Ma'Lord that the vast majority would wait until they could go past leaving a three or four foot gap and then pass quite safely.

Eh? Either there is no oncoming vehicle - in which case there should be no problem moving out fully into the other lane - or there is an oncoming vehicle, in which case an overtake would be deeply stupid, not to say dangerous.

Think this through.

 

[Clive Atton]

Now you're just being offensive. Care to give examples, and cite the relevant sections of the highway code being broken?

Could someone define a 'safe-overtake' please. Is it the same distance for bicycles, motorcycles, cars, lorries etc? One person's fragile sensibilities may be permanently damaged by a motorcycle passing ten feet away at 40mph while another person may be completely unfazed. I do not advocating unsafe overtaking, I am merely questioning whether or not you have to leave a ginormous gap that you could get a bus (or two) in between a vehicle and a cyclist. I ride a motorbike, around town I probably allow five feet or so between me and any cyclists when I pass. Show me the HC regulations I've broken. Are you seriously telling me I'm virtually guilty of attempted murder, do I constantly leave sobbing, nervously-wrecked cyclists in my wake.


Re my point about macho cyclists, it is a VERY valid point. Generally you cannot hear another bicycle, at least motorbikes, cars, lorries et al have engines and can almost always be heard (even electric cars create tyre noise) so giving you some notice of their approach. A fast travelling cyclist on your back wheel just as you swerve around a drain cover is just asking for a collision, so why shouldn't the overtaking cyclist also have to allow the same gap between them and the overtakee?

 

[Clive Atton]

[QUOTE 1531329"]
Guess what happened to me on the way home tonight?
[/quote]

You stopped off for fish and chips?

Goodnight.

 

[growingvegetables]

I am merely questioning whether or not you have to leave a ginormous gap that you could get a bus (or two) in between a vehicle and a cyclist.

Ummmm - did you look at the HC picture? A "bus (or two)"? May I suggest Specsavers?

A little bird tells me you might not be the considerate and courteous driver I'd pull in for and allow to overtake? The kind of driver who "covers my arse"? The driver I'd be embarrassed not to give way to?

I get the feeling that you may be the kind of impatient driver, in front of whom I might feel it necessary to be a stroppy, obnoxious, self-righteous git ------ and enjoy holding you up for every bit as long as I safely could.

 

[Hip Priest]

Do they? IMO, almost all the bad driving I see is just that, bad driving. It's not got anything to do with trying to "scare" me, as a cyclist (or for pathetic 'fun').

I only started cycling in April and I've had a passenger throw a can of Strongbow at me, and a car coming in the opposite direction on an empty country road cross into my lane to drive at me. Bad driving, I think not. Some people just like to intimidate more vulnerable road users. And that goes for cyclists who 'buzz' peds as well.

 

[Norm]

I also suggest that any of the posters on this forum who think a vehicle should follow them ad infinitum until there is a completely clear oncoming lane available to enable an overtake do not drive cars or ride motorcycles, so are posting from a standpoint of ignorance (provocative I know but how about an admission by everyone here what their experience is?)

Not only do cyclists think that, but the law implicitly states that is exactly what drivers should do.

The law says nothing, explicitly or implicitly, about the amount of room and the law certainly doesn't implies that overtaking vehicle should move completely out of the lane.

The HC says that you should allow "at least as much space as you would a car". When a car overtakes another car, there is usually not that much room between them. Depending on the road, having one car in each lane, whether travelling the same or opposite directions, there can be under 1m between cars. That's all the HC says.

 

[As Easy As Riding A Bike]

The law says nothing, explicitly or implicitly, about the amount of room and the law certainly doesn't implies that overtaking vehicle should move completely out of the lane.

The HC says that you should allow "at least as much space as you would a car". When a car overtakes another car, there is usually not that much room between them. Depending on the road, having one car in each lane, whether travelling the same or opposite directions, there can be under 1m between cars. That's all the HC says.

I think the wording is unhelpfully ambiguous. The image provided with the online version of the Highway Code certainly suggests that overtaking vehicles should move into the other lane. But I suppose, if that was the intention, a more specific wording would be 'position yourself on the road as if you were overtaking a car.'

If the wording is actually meant to suggest you can, or should, overtake a cyclist leaving the same amount of room between you and his and her handlebars as you would a car wing mirror, then frankly a serious rethink is required. That's much too dangerous, certainly when you consider the greater speed differentials, and the increased vulnerability.

 

[Norm]

Certainly ambiguous and I certainly leave more room when overtaking a cyclist in a powered vehicle than is available when overtaking another car. Although I think that the bike-on-bike interactions mentioned above do also merit some consideration.

What the law (and the HC) certainly does not do, contrary to Jezston's assertion, is say that... "a vehicle should follow them ad infinitum until there is a completely clear oncoming lane available to enable an overtake".

 

[abo]

The HC says 'move quickly past the vehicle you are overtaking, once you have started to overtake. Allow plenty of room. Move back to the left as soon as you can but do not cut in'. Nowhere does it give a specific distance

Perhaps, but the HC also says in rule 163 'give motorcyclists, cyclists and horse riders at least as much room as you would when overtaking a car'

 

[Bobtoo]

Rule 163 is only a suggestion.

 

[Jezston]

Certainly ambiguous and I certainly leave more room when overtaking a cyclist in a powered vehicle than is available when overtaking another car. Although I think that the bike-on-bike interactions mentioned above do also merit some consideration.

What the law (and the HC) certainly does not do, contrary to Jezston's assertion, is say that... "a vehicle should follow them ad infinitum until there is a completely clear oncoming lane available to enable an overtake".

It's a fair point and I'm not really saying that, I think I was overreacting a bit to that guy's ego.

I think a safe passing distance is always going to be something that's going to be hard to define in law. What makes me feel comfortable varies depending on the size of the vehicle and the speed difference, but I think a rough guide being enough space for them to have to swerve to avoid a hidden pothole and fall over.

There's been plenty of times when someone's overtaken me with just a couple of feet to spare but I've felt fine because they were only going 5mph faster than me and I was only doing 15 or so anyway. But what if I'd had to suddenly avoid something? I suppose the same applies in any kind of vehicle.

I do stick by the idea a vehicle SHOULD wait until it's totally clear and safe to overtake, even if that means hanging back and slowing down for a while. I don't understand why people should be pissed off for having to go slow for a little while, unless they are an emergency services vehicle.