Michael Mason Inquest

[spen666]

Or, more specifically in this case, the CPS cannot take the case to trial because someone decided that there was no need to refer it to them.

That is a different point, and a very valid one.

The Police appear to have wrongly not referred the matter to the CPS.

It is my understanding that in fatal road traffic accidents the decision should be made by the CPS. It is not clear to me why this did not happen

 

[spen666]

Oh really?
http://road.cc/146173

The investigating officer has said


Obviously neither of those things are a defence to the driver having run the cyclist down from behind, as he was well lit. Clear evidence of bias.

DI Mason goes on to say



Which is just staggering.

I repeat my comment, there is no EVIDENCE in public to support either allegation.

There is plenty of conjecture, speculation and comment. These are not evidence

 

[spen666]

The standard of evidence is the same (beyond reasonable doubt) and the dangerous driving offence almost identical. The two systems are so similar that the Irish courts' most significant extra-judicial source of persuasive judgements is from the courts of England and Wales. But if you want to discount my example that's fine.



Do you take the view that in the Mason case there is only evidence of a collision?

GC

I don't take any view as I have not seen the full file of papers in this case.

However in the other case there were 140 prosecution witnesses, so to compare it to a case where there is only evidence a collision took place and no more is strange

 

[benb]

I repeat my comment, there is no EVIDENCE in public to support either allegation.

There is plenty of conjecture, speculation and comment. These are not evidence

The officer's own words are not evidence?
That's kind of odd.

 

[spen666]

17 pages later the point finally gets there.

That might be your point

My point has been that evidence of a collision is not sufficient on its own to found a conviction.

 

[spen666]

The officer's own words are not evidence?
That's kind of odd.

Where is the officer's statement not selective extracts of something that may or may not be from the officer's statement?

 

[w00hoo_kent]

Where is the officer's statement not selective extracts of something that may or may not be from the officer's statement?

I have to say, and apologies if this comes across more personal than I'd like it to, your answers here have gone a long way to explaining why so many people end up in a state of complete frustration with the law and come to the conclusion that their safety as a cyclist is much more to do with random whim than anything else.

At some point this year I'll be riding the streets of London without Hi Viz, probably without a helmet, maybe after dark. I kind of figure it's pure luck someone doesn't run me down and get off with a shrug.

 

[Dan B]

If it wasn't for the effect it'd have on aerodynamics I'd be giving serious consideration to riding everywhere with a garden rake on the back of the bike.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

The Police appear to have wrongly not referred the matter to the CPS.

It is my understanding that in fatal road traffic accidents the decision should be made by the CPS. It is not clear to me why this did not happen

Your understanding is WRONG.
The Met Police are entirely happy that the decision not to refer the case to the CPS is the correct one as evidenced by the report of the Investigating Officer into Martin Porter's complaint.

 

[benb]

Where is the officer's statement not selective extracts of something that may or may not be from the officer's statement?

Oh sorry, I thought when you said evidence, you were being honest in that request, not just asking for things which agreed with you and dismissing everything else.

The officer's statement was in the article I linked. I guess you couldn't be bothered to read it.

 

[glasgowcyclist]

Do you take the view that in the Mason case there is only evidence of a collision?

I don't take any view as I have not seen the full file of papers in this case.

Then what was the point of you asking :

Name a single case where the only evidence was there had been a collision and a conviction followed ...

However in the other case there were 140 prosecution witnesses, so to compare it to a case where there is only evidence a collision took place and no more is strange

Make your mind up; is there only evidence of a collision in this case or not?

GC

 

[GrumpyGregry]

It is not

The fact of a collision and motorist not seeing cyclist on its own is not sufficient in law.

Take for example a hypothetical situation.

Motorist is stationary at a t junction after stopping behind giveway line, looking to his left , cyclist comes from his right, rides into stationary car (cyclist has swereved off main carriageway.

There you have a collision and motorist did not see cyclist.

There is no blame on motorist at all, let alone evidence of careless driving



Whether there is guilt or not in the Mason case I cannot say as I like I suspect most people on here have not heard ALL the evidence.

First you were saying there was no evidence. Now we haven't heard ALL the evidence. (Except that we have becuase the Met have made it public.

Make up your mind please.

And stop coming up with increasingly ludicrous hypothetical examples and stick to what is KNOWN about this case....

A driver rear-ended a well lit cyclist on a well lit street because she didn't see him and a Detective Inspector in the Met thinks that is careful and competent driving.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

Oh sorry, I thought when you said evidence, you were being honest in that request, not just asking for things which agreed with you and dismissing everything else.

The officer's statement was in the article I linked. I guess you couldn't be bothered to read it.

The officer's statements are contained in the official Met report into the complaint against him.

 

[benb]

The officer's statements are contained in the official Met report into the complaint against him.

Yes, a link to which is in the article about it I posted earlier.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

Yes, a link to which is in the article about it I posted earlier.

Spenster doesn't do links I posted the report as a file on here this morning.