Massive Investment In Cycling Announced...

[Milkfloat]

I had no idea it was only £102M for the route, that is exceptional value for money, although I guess the devil is in the detail and it could have turned out to be a Sustrans style muddy field. However, as well as being a missed opportunity HS2 actually makes things worse for cyclists. It is cutting access to huge swaths of road network in half and even where bridges and tunnels are being put in place there is little to no provision for cyclists.

 

[mjr]

I had no idea it was only £102M for the route, that is exceptional value for money, although I guess the devil is in the detail and it could have turned out to be a Sustrans style muddy field. However, as well as being a missed opportunity HS2 actually makes things worse for cyclists. It is cutting access to huge swaths of road network in half and even where bridges and tunnels are being put in place there is little to no provision for cyclists.

Rather than Sustrans-mistake mud, I suspect the plan would have been simply to tarmac more of the maintenance access tracks than will now be done, rather like how an improved National 51 was made alongside the Cambridge guided busway.

Agreed on the severance problem. The undersized budget for bridging existing links is a disgrace. It feels like we're spending a massive sum on HS2 yet still cutting the wrong corners for the want of a fraction of a percent more.

 

[HMS_Dave]

There's no money in cycling unfortunately, or not to a measurable degree. We don't buy taxed fuel at the pumps, and don't pay yearly for tax, insurance, MOT's and maintenance.

Keeping cars on the road keeps contributions to the economy up.

Well not entirely accurate. Cycling is worth £5.4bn to the UK economy. I would call that a measurable degree. That by the way is worth more than the Steel industry in this country and the Gov't and the press give that a great deal of attention... frankly, there is no way cyclists get anywhere near their fair share back from the Gov't in infrastructure projects, in my opinion.

 

[Drago]

I'd have loved cycling alongside HS2, trains whizzing past periodically. Still, when all the petrol cars are banned we'll soon have the roads to ourselves anyway.

 

[confusedcyclist]

Cyclists buy taxed fuel in food shops

Interestingly, most real foods are not subject to VAT.
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/food-products-and-vat-notice-70114#general-food-products

 

[mjr]

Interestingly, most real foods are not subject to VAT.
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/food-products-and-vat-notice-70114#general-food-products

Only if you think prepared food is unreal! Basically, most ingredients are zero-rated, as that says. Food from a typical food stop is standard-rated, as stated in the section immediately above the one you linked to https://www.gov.uk/guidance/food-products-and-vat-notice-70114#general-vat-liability-rules - and I think far more cyclists make café stops than buy things to make picnics or whatever.

 

[confusedcyclist]

Only if you think prepared food is unreal! Basically, most ingredients are zero-rated, as that says. Food from a typical food stop is standard-rated, as stated in the section immediately above the one you linked to https://www.gov.uk/guidance/food-products-and-vat-notice-70114#general-vat-liability-rules - and I think far more cyclists make café stops than buy things to make picnics or whatever.

Fair point but the majority of my calories come from home prepared food. I avoid all prepackaged and processed foods, but admit I'm somewhat of an outlier in modern society.

 

[mjr]

Fair point but the majority of my calories come from home prepared food. I avoid all prepackaged and processed foods, but admit I'm somewhat of an outlier in modern society.

The point I was trying to make was that even most additional-for-cycling unpackaged not-factory-processed food has VAT on it if bought in a café but this is getting a bit

 

[classic33]

The point I was trying to make was that even most additional-for-cycling unpackaged not-factory-processed food has VAT on it if bought in a café but this is getting a bit

This investment extends as far as food for cyclists?

If not, then why mention it as we all have to eat. Whatever form of transport is used.

 

[mjr]

This investment extends as far as food for cyclists?

No. We seem to have gotten a bit sidetracked but extra café purchases by cycling is one small element in how cycling repays more than the cost of building decent cycle routes, far more beneficial to local economies than motorists buying dead dino sauce from halfway around the world.

 

[Ming the Merciless]

Well not entirely accurate. Cycling is worth £5.4bn to the UK economy. I would call that a measurable degree. That by the way is worth more than the Steel industry in this country and the Gov't and the press give that a great deal of attention... frankly, there is no way cyclists get anywhere near their fair share back from the Gov't in infrastructure projects, in my opinion.

... it could be worth so much more if they invested a little. I think the return in cycling investment is about 5 times that of nearest other infrastructure projects for transport.

 

[Salty seadog]

Is this a variation on the “Some of my best friends are...”?

More widely in economic terms, each road death is estimated to cost the economy £14m, so motoring has a mountain to climb to break even just on that.

Hi Mj, I'm intrigued by this. Could you expand on that or link it. Cheers.

 

[sheddy]

I think this is from 2012
https://assets.publishing.service.g...a/file/254720/rrcgb-valuation-methodology.pdf

 

[dutchguylivingintheuk]

Which has been dubbed 'mini holland' schemes. I don't know about you, but Holland isn't a big country and whats worse is that Holland is actually a smaller region of what is the Netherlands...

While there are two county/provinces in The Netherlands with ''Holland'' in their name, i'm pretty sure in this case they mean the whole country. but ''the Netherlands'' and ''Holland'' are often mixed up.

Aside from that, aside from the amount of money i think if the uk is really serious about managing cycles like how it is in the Netherlands they need to start with one policy, for example neighboring Harrow has a ''dutch roads scheme'' while my council has something else so if you cycle from one council to a other you get a whole mix of cycle paths, road types etc. They might be all made with the best intentions, but it is very confusing and counter productive for both us as cyclist and cars alike.
But they also need to address where people can leave their £ XXXX bike safely. In the Netherlands in every medium and mostly even small sized cities there is at least one place where you can leave you bike secured, either in a ''bike safe'' secured by cctv and active monitoring or by a manned place where you get a ticket number and they put your bike safely away for you. There is usually also a sign saying to which amount they are insured in case of a theft. Here in the uk so far i have seen none, the closest as a normal cycle parking at the station platform in the catchment area of the stations cctv with a warning sign included saying that they take no responsibility if your bike gets stolen.

 

[mjr]

in every medium and mostly even small sized cities there is at least one place where you can leave you bike secured, either in a ''bike safe'' secured by cctv and active monitoring or by a manned place where you get a ticket number and they put your bike safely away for you. There is usually also a sign saying to which amount they are insured in case of a theft. Here in the uk so far i have seen none, the closest as a normal cycle parking at the station platform in the catchment area of the stations cctv with a warning sign included saying that they take no responsibility if your bike gets stolen.

Cambridge is the only UK city I've seen ticketed manned bike parking, under the Lion Yard shopping centre, behind John Lewis. Charged, whereas I think most Dutch cities provide it free, don't they?

Agree with most of the rest. It's very annoying seeing the join in the cycleways as you cross county and borough boundaries while the adjacent carriageway continues unchanged, built to the same spec throughout.