Pro Tour Punditry
Guru
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Marco Pantani -Il Pirata
- Thread starter migrantwing
- Start date
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Aravis
Putrid Donut
- Location
- Gloucester
I don't think anyone needs to work too hard to justify their choice of favourites. Personally I always disliked Pantani, but my own all-time favourite is another deeply flawed genius.
I have a DVD called "Italian Legends of the Tour de France". It's nothing special - I think I picked it up cheap in The Works. It paints an unashamedly positive portrait of four of Italy's greatest post-war cyclists - Bartali, Coppi, Gimondi and Pantani, with particular emphasis on their exploits in the Tour. Phil Liggett presents, at his most reflective, and I think he does a good job. At the end he doesn't attempt to speculate on who is the best. He sums up by saying (words to this effect) that on the one hand we have the romantic tragedians, on the other the hard-nosed pragmatists, and cycling needs both.
I have a DVD called "Italian Legends of the Tour de France". It's nothing special - I think I picked it up cheap in The Works. It paints an unashamedly positive portrait of four of Italy's greatest post-war cyclists - Bartali, Coppi, Gimondi and Pantani, with particular emphasis on their exploits in the Tour. Phil Liggett presents, at his most reflective, and I think he does a good job. At the end he doesn't attempt to speculate on who is the best. He sums up by saying (words to this effect) that on the one hand we have the romantic tragedians, on the other the hard-nosed pragmatists, and cycling needs both.
T4tomo
Legendary Member
I'm not saying it was Ok to cheat, but yes I am saying EPO usage was so common then you can't dismiss one persons prowess as solely achieved because he cheated, because the people he raced with and beat and was beaten by also cheated. I know EPO could turn a donkey into a racehorse, we saw that with Lance. 3/4 of the peleton were cheating in that era, possibly more, including all the top guys, so you either take their achievements at face value whilst mentally noting it was the EPO era, or forget there was bike racing. But before EPO there was amphetamines etc and other stimulants which were widely used, so where do you stop? You can't recalibrate everyone's achievement because they had a naturally lower hemocrit level therefore may have benefitted proportionally more from Blood doping.
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migrantwing
Veteran
You heathen, you
Sadly, all users of drugs, in one form or another, apart from Bartali, possibly. Yet still, undoubtedly greats.
DRM
Guru
- Location
- West Yorks
They were all at it, go as far back as Coppi and Bartali's era, Fausto Coppi spoke of using La Bomba, even further back use of painkillers were endemic, time moves on and so does the science, perhaps even now someone is developing the next undetectable performance enhancing drug.
There was an interesting programme on tv a while back where a keen cyclist and journalist did an experiment by micro dosing EPO under medical supervision, he trained hard prior to the experiment, got his fitness the best he had ever been, he then started on the EPO, within a few weeks he reported stopping riding with his mates, who were all faster then him because he was leaving them for dust on every climb, the thing is he was tested as pro atheletes are tested, the EPO was undetectable.
There was an interesting programme on tv a while back where a keen cyclist and journalist did an experiment by micro dosing EPO under medical supervision, he trained hard prior to the experiment, got his fitness the best he had ever been, he then started on the EPO, within a few weeks he reported stopping riding with his mates, who were all faster then him because he was leaving them for dust on every climb, the thing is he was tested as pro atheletes are tested, the EPO was undetectable.
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migrantwing
Veteran
OP
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migrantwing
Veteran
Just found this with a quick Google search. I take it this is the one you're on about. Gonna go have a watch of it.
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DRM
Guru
- Location
- West Yorks
I think thats the one, sure it was Panorama.
OP
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migrantwing
Veteran
Just finished reading this from Amazon. You can read it on a Kindle or other devices. I managed to read it on my PC via the Kindle app/program. It was only £5. It goes into detail as to why the murder theory doesn't add up.
Pantani-Debunking The Murder Myth
Excerpt here
I knew Pantani had his problems with Cocaine, we all did, but some of the things that I found out in this book I'd not heard or known before. Quite a good read, occasionally a little tough going, but the details of his last few months and the hotel room where he died is very interesting. I read it in one sitting.
Shame to be reminded that the usual hangers on and wastrels surrounded him for most of his life and, ultimately, including himself, played a part in his death. An all too familiar occurence in a lot of famous demises and deaths.
Pantani-Debunking The Murder Myth
Excerpt here
I knew Pantani had his problems with Cocaine, we all did, but some of the things that I found out in this book I'd not heard or known before. Quite a good read, occasionally a little tough going, but the details of his last few months and the hotel room where he died is very interesting. I read it in one sitting.
Shame to be reminded that the usual hangers on and wastrels surrounded him for most of his life and, ultimately, including himself, played a part in his death. An all too familiar occurence in a lot of famous demises and deaths.
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