Making sure shifters are level.

[Shut Up Legs]

I thought the best way was to use this as an excuse to buy another bike?

 

[SpokeyDokey]

Thought about that but you would have to make sure the bars where 100% level.

2 spirit levels?

 

[Rob3rt]

To what 'source of error' do you refer? I'm saying that this 'probably works very well' method delivers as much accuracy as the one you are suggesting - but for less effort. It's the method used by pro mechanics.

The source of error is YOU, even as much as I expected you to be adamant with regards your way of doing things, I find it rather alarming that you had to ask for clarification on that. Looking at things and making a judgement is not the same as measuring them.

It is highly unlikely that it delivers the same accuracy. Further, it will also not provide the same resolution (ability to detect small changes/graduations in the quantity being measured) and it most certainly will not deliver the same precision (ability to reproduce the same result).

As for pro-mechanics using your proposed methods, they may well do, because it is a good method, I didn't say it was not, but it is definitely not the best for outright accuracy, precision and resolution. Further, just because someone is a pro-mechanic, it does not mean they will always use the best method for doing things, they will tend to do things in a way they find comfortable or in a way they were taught, by someone who in turn did it a way he/she was comfortable and was taught, just like many fitters and electricians I have worked with over the years! With time, people tend to develop a mastery and can get pretty damn close to perfect, but that takes time and some people will never develop it. Any newby or indeed mechanically lacking person, can rest some handlebars on a table.

For ME, it is well worth getting them perfect 1st time round as unless I stack the bike, or replace the shifters/bars then I won't be doing it again for a VERY long time.

 

[youngoldbloke]

Why not both? '4 point' method as in video for initial 'ideal' positioning. then for personal fitting mark the bars with permanent marker and adjust (measure) from first position and/or use straight edge and measure to centre section of bar for accuracy. Once you have cables attached the ''4 point' method becomes somewhat tricky.

 

[Rob3rt]

Why not both? '4 point' method as in video for initial 'ideal' positioning. then for personal fitting mark the bars with permanent marker and adjust (measure) from first position and/or use straight edge and measure to centre section of bar for accuracy. Once you have cables attached the ''4 point' method becomes somewhat tricky.

I think you should completelly forget about the video with regards positioning, positioning is a fitting parameter, the video is piss poor in this regard. The 4 point method should not be used to fit your bike, just to level the levers once their preferred position has been obtained.

As for it being difficult when you have cables attached, yup it can be, I said that somewhere up page, BUT you can approximate fairly well with a flat board you can hold up to the bike (in some cases) etc. Otherwise, as I said, I would just undo the cables and do it on the flat bench, once set, it won't need to be touched for years so worth the hassle, IN MY OPINION*.

* Caps not for your benefit youngoldbloke

 

[fossala]

Yup it does, I said that somewhere up page, you can approximate fairly well with a flat board you can hold up to the bike with some shifters etc. Otherwise, as I said, I would just undo the cables and do it on the bench, once set, it won't need to be touched for years so worth the hassle, IMO.

But I've already set up my brakes and gearing

 

[Rob3rt]

And you have just learned something.......... next time you can try something a little different, set up the hood position before installing the cables (I would do this regardless as the hood position will change the required cable outer length to some degree, sometimes minor, sometimes major depending how close you were in the initial setup.)

Now you will need to use a method like that proposed by Mickle or youngoldbloke, or find a flat board and hold up to the bike. Or undo the cables and do it on a bench which will take longer and be more hassle.

Not denying that the method I proposed can be a hassle in some circumstances But in a fresh setup, I have yet to come across a method that works better for getting things level.

 

[mickle]

The source of error is YOU, even as much as I expected you to be adamant with regards your way of doing things, I find it rather alarming that you had to ask for clarification on that. Looking at things and making a judgement is not the same as measuring them.

It is highly unlikely that it delivers the same accuracy. Further, it will also not provide the same resolution (ability to detect small changes/graduations in the quantity being measured) and it most certainly will not deliver the same precision (ability to reproduce the same result).

As for pro-mechanics using your proposed methods, they may well do, because it is a good method, I didn't say it was not, but it is definitely not the best for outright accuracy, precision and resolution. Further, just because someone is a pro-mechanic, it does not mean they will always use the best method for doing things, they will tend to do things in a way they find comfortable or in a way they were taught, by someone who in turn did it a way he/she was comfortable and was taught, just like many fitters and electricians I have worked with over the years! With time, people tend to develop a mastery and can get pretty damn close to perfect, but that takes time and some people will never develop it. Any newby or indeed mechanically lacking person, can rest some handlebars on a table.

For ME, it is well worth getting them perfect 1st time round as unless I stack the bike, or replace the shifters/bars then I won't be doing it again for a VERY long time.

Sorry to be so pedantic but.. You seem to be labouring under the misapprehension that the method I'm proposing is inherently inferior to yours. You missed this that I said in an earlier post: 'I'm saying that this 'probably works very well' method delivers as much accuracy as the one you are suggesting - but for less effort'.
That is to say, that the method used by astronomers, surveyors and the people who built stonehenge - looking at the light through the gap between two edges - is not less accurate than wobbling the whole assembly on a flat surface. And that sub millimetre brake lever positional accuracy can be acheived without dismantling the bike. That is all.

 

[Rob3rt]

Sorry to be so pedantic but.. You seem to be labouring under the misapprehension that the method I'm proposing is inherently inferior to yours. You missed this that I said in an earlier post: 'I'm saying that this 'probably works very well' method delivers as much accuracy as the one you are suggesting - but for less effort'.
That is to say, that the method used by astronomers, surveyors and the people who built stonehenge - looking at the light through the gap between two edges - is not less accurate than wobbling the whole assembly on a flat surface. And that sub millimetre brake lever positional accuracy can be acheived without dismantling the bike. That is all.

No I am not, your method is a perfectly good method but like most things, you compromise one factor to gain another. Let me give you an example from my field, if I want as close to perfection as possible a measurement of an electronic component, in a lab environment, I will stick it across an LCR bridge, a piece of equipment that is large, heavy and expensive. If I want a measurement in a field environment where the LCR bridge is impracticable, I will accept a slightly less accurate, precise and repeatable measurement and use a multimeter, as portability and access is the priority.

I will admit an error on my part though, I should not have used the word BEST, because the method I propose is not necessarily the best in all circumstances and having not tried every other method that exists, I am not qualified to state is as the best! Let me rephrase, where access and time is not a limiter (i.e. with new kit or no cables in place), the method I propose is the best method I have found of all the methods I have experience of including the method referred to by Mickle (you).

Second bolded point. No it doesn't.

Third bolded point, refer to my previous point re. mastery.

 

[RecordAceFromNew]