Make them pay road tax then, like motorists do!!

[yello]

[quote name='swee'pea99' timestamp='1309179106' post='1724099']Why not accept that (in the real world) yes, there's road tax, most cyclists (having cars) pay it, and even those that don't contribute to the cost of maintaining the roads through general taxation.[/quote]

Agreed. That's the message that needs to be communicated and it's best tackled head-on (imho, and if you'll forgive the unfortunate word choice). Turning it into a semantic debate diverts the argument and misses the important point.

 

[Alembicbassman]

VAT is applied to new bikes and bike acessories.

This is currently 20%

Nuff said

 

[SquareDaff]

Can we please stop using the expression 'Road Tax'. There is no such tax. Nobody pays 'Road Tax'. There is NO 'Road Tax' debate. There can't be - it does not exist - if we who are being criticized can't be clear about this why should we expect those who want to stir up anti cycling feeling to get it right? The debate can ONLY be about whether cyclists should be made to register their bicycles and be liable to Vehicle Exicise Duty - VED - for which they would be zero rated anyway, under current emissions legislation. So - a pretty pointless exercise.

edit: my reply prompted by SquareDaff. cd365 - I expect you're right!

All that fuss over a couple of missing double quotes!! Calm down - you'll give yourself a heart attack!

 

[youngoldbloke]

This site says it all ipayroad tax.com
Obviously I am aware that the general public refer to CAR tax as 'Road Tax'. Why not try to educate them a little? It wouldn't really work if the oiks shouted out 'Pay Car Tax' would it?

 

[youngoldbloke]

Agreed. That's the message that needs to be communicated and it's best tackled head-on (imho, and if you'll forgive the unfortunate word choice). Turning it into a semantic debate diverts the argument and misses the important point.

OK - just how do you do that?

 

[yello]

OK - just how do you do that?

Me personally? I wouldn't. It'd be for cycling orgs like the CTC to attempt. Full page ads in national dailies? Badgering the editors of papers that print such factually incorrect or misleading op eds. There are probably any number of methods that creative folk can dream up.

Why, perhaps even the good folk on CC want to have a whip around for an ad? Or a batch of leaflets?

 

[metrorider]

Cyclists will continue to get a negative press if they don't show more care and attention to other road users. I was following a couple of guys this morning who made no attempt to signal which way they were going off a roundabout - not once but twice! This is not the first time I've seen this from so called 'professionals'.

It all comes down to a lack of respect in society as a whole to be honest. If this does not change then I fear things will just get worse before they get better.

* Just realised I put this in wrong thread!*

 

[Mad at urage]

Car drivers will continue to get a negative press if they don't show more care and attention to other road users. I was on my ride this morning and there were less than one in twenty who made any attempt to signal which way they were going at junctions or roundabouts! This is not the first time I've seen this, including from from so called 'professionals'.

Then there was the silly £:$@* who decided that (coming off the M4 at J28) she had priority over me approaching (on a green light) from her right at the roundabout! Aggressive use of the horn to make her point earned some gestures in return, but she'll never earn general acceptance of drivers by pulling stunts like that.

 

[Ace Demon]

Cyclists aren't some separate breed given a special privilege - they are ordinary people that choose to use a bike. Similarly, if the so called "hard done by tax paying motorist" doesn't want to use a bike, that's a choice that's entirely within their control. No need to complain.

 

[Bicycle]

Can we please stop using the expression 'Road Tax'. There is no such tax. Nobody pays 'Road Tax'. There is NO 'Road Tax' debate. There can't be - it does not exist - if we who are being criticized can't be clear about this why should we expect those who want to stir up anti cycling feeling to get it right? The debate can ONLY be about whether cyclists should be made to register their bicycles and be liable to Vehicle Exicise Duty - VED - for which they would be zero rated anyway, under current emissions legislation. So - a pretty pointless exercise.

I think everybody knows this. It's a matter of common usage, not a manifest failure to understand the ways of the Exchequer.

I love to see these slightly cross posts about how VED is not Road Tax. In common usage it is road tax. It might be time to get used to that reality.

I still talk about my car's log book although it hasn't been a book for a long time. Last I heard it was a V5C and it may have changed again, but it will always be a log book to me. Everyone knows what I mean. No-one expects me suddely to pull a pre-war, beige registration log book out of my pocket...

Likewise references to lead in pencils, number plates on cars, dialling on the telephone and many more.

Thus, I will always ask my wife: "Shall I tax your car while I'm online, dear heart?"

I cannot imagine I'll ever say "Would you like me to pay the Vehicle Excise Duty for your Motor Car, legally recognised spouse and mother of my children?"

Please, let us continue to use the expression Road Tax.

Partly to drive the Terminology Geeks up the wall, where they'll be happy together at picture-rail level in a zealous but smug fury at the ignorance of others...

And partly because in common usage it is the accepted term for the payment we make for the little disc on our windscreens.

I hereby lay an ancient curse combining inner tubes and thorns on the next person to make a serious reference to VED on this thread.

So there!

 

[benb]

Agreed, that road tax is the term in common usage.
But I think that there are a large number of people who genuinely believe that the tax disc directly pays for roads, and that therefore they have more rights on the road than cyclists.

There is a much smaller group that will hate and detest cyclists no matter what. They are a lost cause.

It's because of the first group of people that accuracy in this area is important.

 

[Bicycle]

Agreed, that road tax is the term in common usage.
But I think that there are a large number of people who genuinely believe that the tax disc directly pays for roads, and that therefore they have more rights on the road than cyclists.

There is a much smaller group that will hate and detest cyclists no matter what. They are a lost cause.

It's because of the first group of people that accuracy in this area is important.

A number of people genuinely believe that the British Royal Family are aliens.

A similar number no doubt genuinely believe that Peter Mandelson forgot to declare existing loans of £750,000 because he 'was confused by the mortgage application form'.

I accept the existance of both groups but do not pander to them when discussing related matters.

It's road tax to me and to everyone I know who doesn't live in Swansea.

 

[youngoldbloke]

benb is correct - common usage it might be, and common belief is that 'Road Tax' pays for roads, therefore if you don't pay 'Road Tax' you have no right to use the roads. There is the problem. I will continue to refer, correctly, to Car Tax, and where more accuracy is required, Vehicle Excise Duty. If you don't attempt to re-educate the general public we will be hearing 'Pay Road Tax' taunts shouted at us for ever-more.

By the way, asking your wife: "Shall I tax your car while I'm online, dear heart?" - absolutely fine - you are rerferring to the tax payable on your CAR - no confusion there. The other examples you give, and there are many, many more - are fine - no confusion arises by their usage.

 

[MrHappyCyclist]

I admit that I also sometimes get the feeling that we might just resign ourselves to the fact that people will continue to talk about "road tax".

I'm always cured of this aberrant thought, though, by re-watching this video. (As well as wanting to shove that woman's finger up where the sun don't shine.)

 

[Jezston]

So called 'Road Tax' is the only tax I've heard ordinary, generally agreeable people think pays for the roads and think cyclists should have less rights than motorists because they don't pay it.

Even, who was it, the minister of transport? Recently said motorists pay for the roads.

There is not a single form of general taxation in existence that is actually ringfenced for any specific spending purpose. Everyone knows that their NI contributions are not going into some savings account for their pension. It's just tax. It all goes to the treasury.

And yet just one form of tax with a name that hasn't existed for 75 years people still think does have this application. Regular people. Not conspiracy theorists or hardliners or morons - I expect if you did a survey you might find MOST people think 'road tax' is the one form of taxation that exists that the treasury actually ringfences for anything.

It's mental. How has this happened?