Magnetic copper bracelets - I'm a sceptic

[nickyboy]

If people are convinced they work, then they shouldn't let facts get in the way of their beliefs.



'I suspect' sounds a bit like 'I believe'.

Look, you know they don't work, I know they don't work. But they produce a positive measurable "wellness" effect on the wearer. Why try to burst their bubbles with facts? All that you achieve is to reduce the positive effect and that can't be a good thing, can it?

 

[Rocky]

Look, you know they don't work, I know they don't work. But they produce a positive measurable "wellness" effect on the wearer. Why try to burst their bubbles with facts? All that you achieve is to reduce the positive effect and that can't be a good thing, can it?

I suppose it becomes important when there’s a demand that they are provided as a treatment, say, by the NHS. Should the public fund such things as this or homeopathy? Some say yes. I’d say no.

 

[PK99]

If people are convinced they work, then they shouldn't let facts get in the way of their beliefs.
'.

Some people are convinced Homeopathic tretments can prevent measles or cure autism.

Would you say the same to them?

 

[Rocky]

Some people are convinced Homeopathic tretments can prevent measles or cure autism.

Would you say the same to them?

Or that diet alone can cure cancer. I agree - if these are held up as a viable treatment for a potentially dangerous but treatable disease, then there’s a problem.

 

[Milkfloat]

Maybe, that's your definition. In order to proceed, I would need to agree one with the person making the claim. Ain't gonna happen. Incidentally, I would say that even if it makes only one person feel better, for one condition, in one specific circumstance, as placebo, that could still be considered, scientifically, to 'work'. It just means that to investigate it we would need to look at the placebo effect rather than any property of copper or magnets. It's still science.

Absolutely - from a science point of view it is total horse dung, but if people are feeling positive effects by wearing them due to the placebo effect, then great. However, as also mentioned, don't let it stop people getting proper medicine where possible. My own grandmother tried treating skin cancer with honey because she did not want to bother the NHS.

 

[Edwardoka]

I have no issue with people using the placebo effect to lessen their suffering. The issues I have with it is when people ascribe magical qualities to it, it promotes and legitimises hokey woo merchants (see also: anti-vaxx) or when it is used in a way that stops people seeking actual treatment.

 

[BoldonLad]

Or that diet alone can cure cancer. I agree - if these are held up as a viable treatment for a potentially dangerous but treatable disease, then there’s a problem.

Indeed. A good friend of mine was parted from several tens of thousands pounds, when his wife was diagnosed (too late) with Cancer, and, in desperation, he searched out various "quacks" who proposed outlandish diets. Did not work.

A similar dilemma arises even with "conventional" drug therapies, when small gains in life span are balanced against large sums of money, usually accompanied by emotional pleas.

 

[winjim]

My own grandmother tried treating skin cancer with honey because she did not want to bother the NHS.

Yikes, that's a new one on me.

 

[PK99]

A bit of science into the discussion:

https://www.health.harvard.edu/mental-health/the-power-of-the-placebo-effect

Placebos won't lower your cholesterol or shrink a tumor. Instead, placebos work on symptoms modulated by the brain, like the perception of pain. "Placebos may make you feel better, but they will not cure you," says Kaptchuk. "They have been shown to be most effective for conditions like pain management, stress-related insomnia, and cancer treatment side effects like fatigue and nausea."

That fits well with the guy up thread who was losing his hair because of stress - a pharmaceutical intervention would have been wrong as would an admonition to "pull yourself together". The placebo sugar pill had the appearance of the former and the effect of the latter. (Edit) Good work by the GP!

 

[Milkfloat]

Yikes, that's a new one on me.

She may have been ahead of the curve https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3385631/

 

[Stompier]

Some people are convinced Homeopathic tretments can prevent measles or cure autism.

Would you say the same to them?

No I wouldn't. I was speaking within the context of this thread - ie people who wear harmless copper bracelets.

 

[Dayvo]

My mam swears by them and has for years

Didn't seem to cure her Tourettes!

 

[winjim]

No I wouldn't. I was speaking within the context of this thread - ie people who wear harmless copper bracelets.

It's interesting to wonder where you'd draw the bullshit line though. GPs can't prescribe placebos any more, although they can suggest taking vitamins, trying homeopathy, antibiotics for viral infections etc. You need to consider risk and benefit to the patient, but also the potential of encouraging and legitimising charlatanism, which could be to the disbenefit of other more vulnerable patients.

 

[Salar]

Over one hundred posts and still going strong.

Didn't expect that.

 

[winjim]

Over one hundred posts and still going strong.

Didn't expect that.

Yeah, I'm supposed to be revising but clearly bickering on the internet is much more interesting.