London shall change the face of cycling in the UK

[chap]

Chap - I'm not sure that TfL have got hold of the potential for using sustainable transport for the Olympics, or, indeed, the problems that it might present. Last I heard they were looking to wiggly green lines across parks. And there was no modelling of what 5,000 or 20,000 bikes might do to the streets around the Olympic park. All I can say is this - if you're planning on riding to Stratford, take sandwiches and a sleeping bag....

 

[marinyork]

absolutely - and the joy of it is that the Tube is stuffed at peak periods, the access to the stations increasingly complex (have you been through St. Pancras recently) and the buses inevitably take a time. The Velib would be as quick as any other way - quicker even than a black cab.

I agree with this. Not too keen on the tube or the complex goings around and St Pancras is far worse now.

Anyway I asked some non-cyclists what they thought of all this stuff announced and they said they'd give it a go but it was a shame they'd have to wait till May and wanted to give it a go in March or April. They said they'd even like to give it a go at first in one of the parks where you can cycle .

Double anyway, I was hoping that even zone 1 could have some use for them to link up with bus/tube although an outsider looking into this is harder. Just zone 2 I'm sure this would start to happen, although I appreciate it might be 3 or 4 years until zones 2 and 3 are included.

 

[thomas]

re: Thomas and Dellzeqq, the sort of thing I'd use it for would be like in the past when I've had to get from Waterloo or Victoria to King's Cross/St Pancras. I like walking in London, it's one of the most friendly places for pedestrians in the country but both of those journeys are about 3 miles and when you have slight time constraints the bike hire would probably have off 80% of the walk and save you 15 minutes. Also going between the terminii and Notting Hill festival direction.

Yep, I think anything over a mile and a half and I'd certainly be interested in using it. 3 miles would take me about an hour at my normal amble...and I'm happy to pay a quid to do it in 15 min.

Next time I'm in London, when it's running, I'd be tempted just to give it a go, get one for half an hour and just go around aimlessly

 

[Norm]

Curses, you found me out, I am indeed Boris and I would have gotten away with it...

Oh, you were joking.

Thanks for the compliment, I am in no way connected with the project, I do not expect that I shall even make much use of the scheme. I'm just excited because, I'm sick of ill-prepared and half-done measures to accommodate cyclists.

I agree completely, and I am impressed with both your knowledge and your zeal.

If anyone wants to try such things, they are already available in some cities. OYBike have facilities in Cardiff, Reading and Farnborough. There's a rental location near one of my company's offices and I've never seen anyone on one of their bikes, although it looks like their only have 13 bikes and 3 locations to cover Reading, none of which are handy for a rail station.

 

[chap]

Farnborough Cycle Hire Scheme - a wasted opportunity?

Oh, you were joking.

I agree completely, and I am impressed with both your knowledge and your zeal.

If anyone wants to try such things, they are already available in some cities. OYBike have facilities in Cardiff, Reading and Farnborough. There's a rental location near one of my company's offices and I've never seen anyone on one of their bikes, although it looks like their only have 13 bikes and 3 locations to cover Reading, none of which are handy for a rail station.

I have heard of them in Farnborough, although the strange thing was that there were 2 hubs within close proximity to each other, in an area I do not think was particularly well served, nor in fact populated.

I think the recycling centre was there, bar that it was almost farcical - what we have long come to expect from many cycle facilities provided by a disinterested local authority with ticks in boxes and their next bonus on their mind.

Farnborough would have been far better served if these hubs had been put at the following locations in order (as a rough plan):

1. Farnborough Main Station
2. Farnborough North Station
3. Farnborough North Camp Station
4. ASDA - Kingsmeade
5. Various business parks (car-park / congestion relief)*
6. Farnborough Technical College
7. The Sixth Form College
8. Farnborough Gate (Halfords / TK Max)
9. QueensMeade - central terrace
10. Morrisons
11. Farnborough Airport
12. The Recycling Centre (South)
13. Local Council
14. Premier Inn Hotel
15. SUN / Nokia building
16. Neighbourhood drops (5 bikes per 0.5 mile radius)

Then finally the locations where they are, at present it makes little sense, if any.

Although to their credit, mainly through my ignorance, I have noticed that along the south of the town, they have segregated cycling facilities, and the road for cars is not stupidly wide as is the usual case. I am unsure as to whether the segregated cycle facilities are wholly so, or are just a zoned off section on a very wide pavement, but it seems as if it's a descent space.

Farnborough would make a good cycle town, it is very pretty and has a lot more to offer than they perhaps believe.


*EDIT:

I have just looked at the website, and noticed that the 2 bike hubs were in fact in business centres - which despite my understanding what they may have been trying to achieve, is actually worse as they get used from Monday to Friday 9 - 5 and that is all.

If they had placed these at the railways stations with clear directions on quiet, safe, easy, and quick direct routes to key parts of town, this would be much more effective. One would also have the following to add amongst their customers:

• Commuters (Station to Station; Station to Work; Work to Shops and CBD)
• Students (Station to School/College; School/College to Shops and CBD)
• Residents (Nearest to Shops; Nearest to Station)

I also remember there being an excellent (and rightfully trumpeted) pub called 'The Thatched Cottage'. This was family friendly and comfortable also equidistant (about 0.25 - 0.5 miles) from the railway station and the sixth form college and an ideal place to put a couple of bikes

There are plenty of potentially quick routes in Farnborough, they just need more promotion, maintenance, and proper designation. In all towns and cities, it should be easier and most direct to walk or cycle, than to drive - after all who feels the pinch after a 0.5 mile detour.

A car should be a privilege, not an necessity.

 

[dellzeqq]

oybikes put bikes in to business centres for people to make business trips - looks good to me...

 

[skrx]

Anything that relies on a credit/debit card for security assumes Johnny Scrote, or as he is known to readers of the DM Oleg Scroteski, can't clone a valid credit/debit card if he wants to. He can, for a few pence a time

I don't think they can clone the chips on credit/debit cards. There are already machines that only accept chip cards (no swiping), such as ticket machines at stations, but this would exclude lots of tourists (Americans etc).

 

[chap]

oybikes put bikes in to business centres for people to make business trips - looks good to me...

Then it would make sense for them to have hubs at the railway stations as well.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

I don't think they can clone the chips on credit/debit cards. There are already machines that only accept chip cards (no swiping), such as ticket machines at stations, but this would exclude lots of tourists (Americans etc).

unless the stations are connected to the bank directly a la ATM machines a simple 'yes card' will do the trick. fairly likely the stations will actually use mag stripe, to accomodate tourists in which case it is even easier.

 

[skrx]

unless the stations are connected to the bank directly a la ATM machines a simple 'yes card' will do the trick. fairly likely the stations will actually use mag stripe, to accomodate tourists in which case it is even easier.

I'm not an expert on this, but I think there is an encryption key in the chip, which the card reader should be verifying, and which should prevent cloning the chip. That's why we've seen a massive reduction in card fraud in the UK -- criminals will still try and steal cards, but they will use them online or in countries that don't have chip cards (e.g. USA, far east).

In any case, I'm sure the bike scheme people will sort out who is liable for the cost of stolen bikes for all the kinds of theft they're likely to face.

 

[chap]

I'm not an expert on this, but I think there is an encryption key in the chip, which the card reader should be verifying, and which should prevent cloning the chip. That's why we've seen a massive reduction in card fraud in the UK -- criminals will still try and steal cards, but they will use them online or in countries that don't have chip cards (e.g. USA, far east).

In any case, I'm sure the bike scheme people will sort out who is liable for the cost of stolen bikes for all the kinds of theft they're likely to face.

And as more services go online... The chip & pin idea is terrible, the encryption standards are not stellar, esp. when using those wireless devices in a crowded place life a resturant.

We have issues concerning security with ATM's, the same issue could apply to other outdoor card reading devices. I could spend more time thinking of more dubious and criminal shenanigans that these dishonourable so-so-and-so's could get up to, but instead I shall reflect on how awesome the Cycle Rental Scheme of London shall be

 

[GrumpyGregry]

I'm not an expert on this, but I think there is an encryption key in the chip, which the card reader should be verifying, and which should prevent cloning the chip. That's why we've seen a massive reduction in card fraud in the UK -- criminals will still try and steal cards, but they will use them online or in countries that don't have chip cards (e.g. USA, far east).

In any case, I'm sure the bike scheme people will sort out who is liable for the cost of stolen bikes for all the kinds of theft they're likely to face.

no, you're right you're not.

I'm sure innocent people won't get charged, that often anyway, but that's no good if 2/3rds of the bikes have gone AWOL

 

[skrx]

no, you're right you're not.

Indeed I'm not (I should maybe have emphasised the "shoulds" in my post -- I have a basic idea of how the system is supposed to work, but I didn't study it and haven't seen any mention of problems with the encryption in the news, until today!).

I've just run back here to correct/update what I wrote, as I've read the first page of this paper (PDF).

(And sorry, I should have Googled "yes card" earlier. I didn't realise it was a technical term.)

 

[chap]

Ready, Get Set...

Well things are starting to move now. The correct people are being put in place. The LCC are now starting to push for a proper cycling infrastructure by means of a Bike Grid, key timing? Serco, are gettting warmed up and the Evening Standard are giving them the oxygen of publicity they require.

Plus Boris has done a video

 

[dellzeqq]

the bike grid is LCN+ mk 2, LCN+ having been proved a vast waste of money. Cycle campaigners should adopt a self-denying ordinance - 'I will not draw lines on maps'.

The most extraordinary thing about the bike grid is the basic misapprehension about the nature of city streets. The very London streets that the LCC defines as coarse grain are the streets most used by pedestrians and cyclists.

Happily nobody gives jack-sh*t about lines on maps. Cyclists just swan down the very roads the DfT and the LCC deem unsuitable. Sadly these very roads are now being marked out with blue paint in a kind of caricature of what cyclists actually do.