Listen to Music or not?

[Aiden_23]

I do appologise when I started the thread it was for my own benefit(and other beginners) I didn't realise it was a "touchy" subject, it all went a bit OTT . My next thread Helmets only kidding

 

[ianrauk]

I do appologise when I started the thread it was for my own benefit(and other beginners) I didn't realise it was a "touchy" subject, it all went a bit OTT . My next thread Helmets only kidding

Not your fault it descended into tit for tat Aiden. Some people should know better.

 

[yello]

That's the puppy that attacked me!

I'm going to ram my frame pump down it's throat if I see it again

 

[kishan]

i do when cycling on the road i need music i cant be doing cycling in silence lol

 

[BlackPanther]

I take back all I've ever said on the subject. Obviously

FACT. Just saying FACT in capital letters before writing something doesn't make it any more of a FACT than if you hadn't written FACT

By FACT I meant that it is a FACT that I have ridden with and without headphones. It is a FACT from my experience that when doing 25-30 mph on busy roads, wearing earbuds with low volume audio has no detrimental effect on hearing traffic noise. If it did, I wouldn't wear them. The same can be said on the motorbike. I wrote FACT because I wanted it to stand out and I just don't think that those commenting are actually taking note that I listen to quiet audio ONLY.

Maybe those who don't think that earbuds help by blocking windnoise just aren't going fast enough to recognise the benefits? Not that there's anything wrong with riding slowly so don't anyone take that the wrong way.

 

[baldycyclist]

maybe this is all saying - make sure your obs is good even if you cannot hear......I wear them.....not too loud....and even when I dont hear traffic still do a shoulder check - just to make sure some elecy car hasn't crept up my rear.
I like the puppy?
Is he for sale?
BTW - runners take their dogs for a run, could we get away with taking our dog for a cycle? - I mean just think of the exercise they would get!

 

[Nantmor]

Has anyone ever started a sentence 'All due respect' and meant it?

Don't take this the wrong way but there's non so blind as them that won't listen (or fully read my original comments). No offence but maybe if you deem it unsafe for me to listen to quiet audio commentary, then it's also unsafe for me to cycle at all. Maybe if we all stayed inside our houses we'd all be safer? I'm surprised you ride at all given the risks....especially since you sound like you're wearing blinkers.

I'm sorry, I have only just found your post. I'm afraid you have got hold of the wrong end of the stick. My post was not aimed at you but at User. He had just asked someone not to take it personally when he told them they were talking nonsense. You are quite right. I certainly did not mean it when I wrote, "All due respect" , I was objecting to User's use of a similar hypocrisy.
As it happens I agree with you on using headphones. I often use them and I feel able to take as much care of my safety as I want to. That is quite a lot of care.
I also think when I see how badly some helmet wearers ride, that helmets would have to work incredibly well in order to make them with a helmet as safe as me without.

Perhaps I should have semaphored my meaning by using a smiley. Or by changing font colour.

I've also just noticed that you posted a like on my comment, before objecting to it. You must have been as fuddled as me.

 

[col]

[QUOTE 1725385, member: 45"]Examples?

Sounds not of concern;
A gently breeze.
The call of the songthrush.
The beat of a butterfly's wings.

Sounds worth checking out;
A car approaching.
A cyclist approaching.
A horse approaching.
A bus approaching.
A pedestrian approaching.
A lorry approaching.
and so on.....[/quote]
But does the volume of these come into play? And why is it cars dont hear most of these, yet manage normally quite well. Also as a cyclists field of view isnt obscured by pillars ect, we actually have more awareness than any vehicle driver. So going on this, if we did away with hearing altogether, cyclists would actually be safer. So going on that vein, do you think that hearing is really not the main sense we use, but sight is.

 

[col]

I think most would agree with you about it being difficult to drive without seeing. But if you cant hear anything, do you look just in case? or if you do hear something do you not look because you heard it? I think it all comes down to looking, so sight wins over sound on this I believe. Though if you havnt seen something, a blast on the horn does the trick to alert you to its presence. I think you would be a very gifted person if you could tell exact position or movement on hearing alone, but you would be a very normal person if you just looked around and saw things without the need to use hearing to forwarn you of somethings approach.

 

[col]

[QUOTE 1726553, member: 45"]I've not mentioned anything about using one sense alone. It's about using all of your senses together.

There are plenty of times when things can be heard before they're seen, and plenty of examples of hearing supplementing sight. See my morning commute post on this thread.[/quote]
My point is, your going to look if you hear something are you not?

 

[col]

[QUOTE 1726566, member: 45"]Of course. Sorry, but I don't get your point.[/quote]
Also if you DONT hear anything, do you NOT look?

 

[col]

[QUOTE 1726574, member: 45"]It's important to have a visual awareness of your surroundings so yes, things like regular shoulder checks are good practice.

But its impossible to be looking everywhere at all times, and this is where your hearing can help. It's also common to hear things that you can't see yet (around corners, behind walls).[/quote]
I agree, but the majority of identifying whats around you is sight, I would bet if you put ear plugs in to stop you hearing anything at all, you would still manage safely, as even when you dont hear anything we still look for things. This is why one earplug in listening to music wouldnt be detrimental to your safety, you still have hearing enough for those things we might miss with sight. So in reality it doesnt make any difference.

 

[col]

[QUOTE 1726594, member: 45"]That depends on the individual's definition of "safely", and that is subjective. My view on this is based on the measurable (meaning that there definitely is a) difference between wearing headphones and not. Cyclists can ride with no hearing at all, but there is an increase in risk brought about by the removal of one of the senses. Not all headphones have the same effect as earplugs (though many do), but all bring some measure of restriction in hearing.

If a rider considers that increase in risk to be minimal, or not enough to result in them riding without headphones, then that's up to them.[/quote]
I suppose my definition of safety is not getting hit by anything. I manage to not get hit in my car without the aid of hearing as much as I would on a cycle. But then we are all open to getting rear ended by someone who is distracted weather we hear or see them. Does hearing something behind us tell us they are about to rear end us? Unlikely, but looking would give a better clue.

 

[smutchin]

What it comes down to for me is whether or not environmental auditory cues are genuinely useful. I maintain that they aren't, and that the sense of hearing is more or less redundant when cycling (at best it comes very low on the list of useful senses) - and I really don't get why hearing would be useful when cycling but not when driving. If anything, I would think the opposite is true. I try to ride my bike in a way that enables me to react to the silent hazards (pedestrians, broken glass) as well as the ones that make a noise, and I find that hearing doesn't give me any useful extra information that I didn't already get from my other senses. YMMV*

What's more, even if you do believe hearing is helpful, it isn't trustworthy. It's all very well jumping to conclusions based on sound wave experiments in school physics lessons, but the real world isn't a laboratory and there are all sorts of factors that affect how sound behaves that can create some very misleading impressions. We're not bats, we're humans. Our sense of hearing is somewhat rudimentary. It does not give us accurate information about the world around us. If you rely on the evidence of your hearing when cycling, especially in a busy urban environment, you are soon going to come a cropper.

If I were going to get philosophical, I could say that we should never trust any of our senses ever, but that's for a different thread. And that, my friends, is my very last word on this subject. At least until next time it comes up.

d.


*User, I could give an analysis of your examples to back up what I'm saying, but since I consider it unlikely that I'd convince you I'm right, it would be pointless and I really don't want to get drawn into the argument again, so I'll spare you. It's ultimately a matter of opinion, and you have your opinion and I have mine.

 

[Nigel-YZ1]

When I'm cycling I'm listening. It helps me to know what's going on around me, what sort of vehicles are approaching from behind, whether something is coming up fast etc.
I couldn't listen to music while cycling. I feel it would divorce me too much from my environment.

In driving I have music on most of the time. The things I need to hear, like emergency vehicles are nice and loud, but I have no need to listen for passing vehicles. There's less passing me, less need to be aware of what is passing me, and I've got the nice mirrors.
The music is an alternative to listening to the engine, but again not too loud as to become a distraction.

Am I right that a survey concluded that Kylie Minogue was the most distracting artist to listen to?
Don't know whether it's the music or the thoughts that come to mind though