Lemond doubts Bertie!!!

[Flying_Monkey]

The latest is that the calculations Lemond was using may have been faulty. However that still doesn't mean he isn't dodgy. In fact, of the top riders this year, only Bradley hasn't bee the target of some serious suspicions (remember the Schlecks' border searches?) and by virtue of his massive improvement this year, you can't assume anything about him either, and certainly not just because he's British.

The Tour is great and I love it, I love all the great races, but pro-cyclists are inveterate cheats and dopers, and have been from the start.

 

[MacB]

Lemond seems certain that the VO2 max is a sound method of detecting doping - is there any reason it isn't being used?

Looking at the Wikipedia page, it says that VO2 max improves with training. So isn't it possible that your VO2 max will alter depending on your condition? And if you peaked for a major sporting event wouldn't your VO2 max be highest at that point? I find it confusing.

We could need Jimbo here

From what I'm understanding they're just using a standard formula to look at what's required from the rider. They have their constants, rider weight, bike weight, distance, incline, wind and time. Then they calculate a power output required. If it's not 'bag of a fag packet' stuff, then Bertie has exceeded the highest ever recorded level by 7.6%

 

[Skip Madness]

Previously my attitude to doping was quite different, having done a bit of reading, I now realise just how much of a benefit, and how dangerous, it can be.

Anyone who can remember the 2003 Tour should know how dangerous PEDs can be. From Wikipedia's article on Jesús Manzano:

On the morning of the seventh stage of the Tour, the team doctor gave him a product that he had never used before. Fifty millilitres were injected into one of his veins. On the first climb of the day, Col de Portes, Manzano and Richard Virenque attacked the peloton and got away in an attempt to bridge up to an earlier breakaway. As Virenque’s teammate was ahead, Virenque did not do any of the work to get to the group. After three kilometres of the climb, Manzano began to become dizzy. Virenque attacked and got away. Manzano collapsed after a further 500 metres and was airlifted to the hospital in Belley. According to Manzano, the team manager Joan Mas asked Manzano to refuse all analysis at the hospital. Manzano would later say that the drug that was administered on the morning of the seventh stage of the Tour de France was Oxyglobin.

 

[Skip Madness]

From what I'm understanding they're just using a standard formula to look at what's required from the rider. They have their constants, rider weight, bike weight, distance, incline, wind and time. Then they calculate a power output required. If it's not 'bag of a fag packet' stuff, then Bertie has exceeded the highest ever recorded level by 7.6%

Yes, that much makes sense to me. I am talking more generally, though - if training affects the measurement of an athlete's VO2 then how will you know what their absolute maximum is (to use as a reference) unless you measure it when they are in the middle of the Tour, say?

 

[marinyork]

I really hope not. Even if Lemond has messed up his calculations other people will have thoughts on it and be able to check/redo. Interesting idea and it is the idea that important.

 

[MacB]

Yes, that much makes sense to me. I am talking more generally, though - if training affects the measurement of an athlete's VO2 then how will you know what their absolute maximum is (to use as a reference) unless you measure it when they are in the middle of the Tour, say?

Yep, I'm not sure an aknowledged variable is the best test to use. The biological passport seems the best method, but only if enforced correctly. The amount, and speed, of oxygen processed is influenced by fitness levels so will naturally vary through the training cycle. The HTC level isn't impacted to the same degree.

Sadly the more I read about it the less likely a clean tour seems feasible, at this moment in time.

 

[Aperitif]

Phew! Heavy stuff - I thought VO2 was shampoo for thinning hair - until I read this thread. I have been perusing the press this morning and dug up a series of transcripts from telephone conversations here.

 

[zimzum42]

This is like the conspiracy theory stuff. People don't like Bertie because he's too good, so they assume he's doping, then they go look for things that might suggest he is.

Chances are they are either all doping, or none of them are. The first is probably the most likely.

Regardless, Conti is clearly the best rider, people should accept that. I for one am very happy, he's the new Indurain, and I loved big mig!

 

[yello]

Methinks L'Equipe are about to start their next witch-hunt.

At the moment, they seem to be playing it cool. Reporting it against a backdrop of Contador not liking to answer questions he doesn't like generally; about Astana, etc...

http://www.lequipe.fr/Cyclisme/breves2009/20090723_195917_contador-fait-la-sourde-oreille.html

...and I think that's the sensible way to approach it at the moment. One should keep in mind that this is just a story about a comment, fueled by raised eyebrows. Now, I too have raised my eyebrows in the past but maintain my belief that Contador is clean and simply a great cyclist.

I can imagine, for a clean cyclist, that an accusation of - or even allusion to - doping after a good performance IS extremely annoying and perhaps ignoring them is the only way they could handle them. BUT in today's context, they sadly have to expect and anticipate it. 'Next question' does not sound good.

I hope Cantador is clean, obviously, but sadly it wouldn't surprise me if he wasn't. Am I setting myself up for another fall? You've just got to love the Tour...

 

[Will1985]

Good article - although as we agree, you can't turn a deaf ear (to steal the headline) to such questions without raising suspicion.

 

[Cathryn]

no no no

i'm only 12 months into this pro cycling fanatacism and I am fortunate that I have not been stung by doping revelations by cyclists that i have emotional investment in. i read blogs and feeds and I fear becoming that jaded. I revel in my naievity, i think its the best place to be.i weep with joy for Contodor and brothers schleck


xx

I'm with Priscilla...can't bear the though, especially for the Brits. I have wondered about Contador (he's just so good) but can't even handle the thought of Wiggins doping. Just no.

Priscilla...see you in Paris! We're off this afternoon, SO excited I can't sit still. The forecast is scorchio...

 

[Will1985]

We shouldn't need to worry about Wiggins - he has made his stance on doping quite clear. He was very hacked off about Landis' stage 17 escape because it made the autobus work very hard to get inside the time limit. Then look at his comment on twitter the other day about what he thinks of Di Luca...

 

[johnnyh]

Then look at his comment on twitter the other day about what he thinks of Di Luca...

could be a smoke screen...

 

[yello]

He was also severely pissed off when Moreni failed a test in 2007 resulting in all of his Cofidis team being withdrawn from the Tour. Wiggins don't dope.

 

[mr-marty-martin]

nah i dnt think wiggo will, his wife would kill him if he did...