Lance Armstrong?

[Chuffy]

I used to be a huge admirer of Armstrong. (Obviously not huge enough to actually buy a US Postal shirt, but pretty huge-ish.) I spent hours around the time of his early Tour wins justifying his dominance by highlighting the rigour of his training, the fact he even trained on Christmas Day, his focus on only a few specific events, the amount of research he did on his aero position in the wind tunnel, the fact his team only had one objective and knew who was boss, that they actually practised for the team time trial, that his opponents seem to have quit before the race even started and seemed reluctant to attack him, etc, etc...

All correct, whether or not he was on the sauce. That's the odd thing about stage races, even being on the cheeky juice won't give you the nous, the courage or the sheer willpower to win. If Landis was ripped to the tits I still admire the way he won that stage. That's one of the problems that cycling has, it's possible to admire people despite the drugs.

 

[paulbuckle]

My 0.2p on this:

There is absolutely no reason to think that Lance would have to have doped to have been consistently beating other very good riders. Theres no conclusive evidence to say that he doped either. Just because an athlete out performs others consistently doesn't mean they are cheating.

Think of it this way....He trained in spain for months leading up to the Tour de France and made frequent trips to France to fully analyze and ride key parts of the upcoming Tour de France course. Since he focused solely on the Tour de France and seldom competed in other major races, he was able to train 180 days per year for the 23 days of the Tour, a significantly greater training time than riders who compete in other races.

Look at other sports like Golf where Tiger is completly dominant, or F1 where Michael Schumacher was the same. You will generally always get one outstanding performer in a sport in generation.

Just my opinion

 

[MichaelM]

My 0.2p on this:

There is absolutely no reason to think that Lance would have to have doped to have been consistently beating other very good riders. Theres no conclusive evidence to say that he doped either. Just because an athlete out performs others consistently doesn't mean they are cheating.

But he didn't just consistenly beat a lot of other very good riders.

He consistently beat a lot of other very good riders who have since tested positive somewhere along the line (I'll use that to cover blood doping as well). Not only that, he consistently beat them with the help of a team that included Hamilton, Herras, and Landis and under D.S. (with a bit of a dodgy background himself) who was prepared to sign Basso after his Giro victory.

Good - yes.
Best of the bunch? - yes.
But as for there being absolutely no reason to think that Lance would have to have doped is bit far fetched ...IMO of course.

 

[niedermeyer]

What is striking is Lance's extremely litigious approach to any suggestions he may have doped.

What is even more interesting is the fact that few of his litigations hve gone to trial, and none AFAIK to a judgement. "Lance sues detractors" = news; "Lance quietly drops case" doesn't get a mention.

 

[Abitrary]

A bloke at work yesterday said that Lance could take out a category 3 rider, on a bmx

He works in marketing, and constantly bamboozles people with stuff like that.

But it's been burning a hole in my brain. Is this possible?

 

[Noodley]

A bloke at work yesterday said that Lance could take out a category 3 rider, on a bmx

He works in marketing, and constantly bamboozles people with stuff like that.

But it's been burning a hole in my brain. Is this possible?

As you started another thread re this I suppose I am now wasting my time referring you to it.....

He would piss all over a cat 3 - on a unicycle

 

[Abitrary]

I started that thread, and realised straight away that be-suited marketing gimp might have been pulling my chain.

But like they say: There are no stupid questions, only stupid bastards who ask them.

So what category could Lance Armstrong take on a BMX?

 

[flattythehurdler]

Lance quietlt dropped numerous libel cases when the court date approached. lance was doped up to the eyes for his entire career. Anyone who believes otherwise is in complete denial. He was a bully to boot, but no more so than Hinault etc.

 

[toontra]

Having just read his other book, "Every Second Counts", I came away with two conclusions. Firstly, he's about the most arrogant, humourless git I've ever read an autobiography of.

Secondly, I think he took drugs. The reason? Basically he spends the whole book saying he didn't! All sorts of convoluted reasons for come-backs when he appeared out of it - mainly that he was pretending to perform badly to trick the other teams.

But my main reason for suspecting his guilt is that most of the last half of the book (written in 2004) is taken up with extolling the virtues of a certain Floyd Landis! He claims to have taken this rough diamond in his youth and mentored him as a brother, imparting him with all his knowledge, not only about the practicalities of the sport but also the psychology and morality. They were inseparable buddies, according to the book.

And Landis is a proven cheat.

 

[postman]

Simply the best.The media ought to put up or shut up .The French are p----d off because he won the race so many times.And press are a bunch of shite .One min praise,praise then dig dig in the dustbins.He won because he is a one off and had a great team behind him.

 

[Frazer]

But my main reason for suspecting his guilt is that most of the last half of the book (written in 2004) is taken up with extolling the virtues of a certain Floyd Landis! He claims to have taken this rough diamond in his youth and mentored him as a brother, imparting him with all his knowledge, not only about the practicalities of the sport but also the psychology and morality. They were inseparable buddies, according to the book.

And Landis is a proven cheat.

Ok, i havent read the book in a long time, but my understanding of it was that Landis and Armstrong never really saw eye to eye, and though Armstrong knew Landis had talent, they were never really 'inseparable buddies'. But i may be wrong or have gotten the wrong end of the stick..ill read it again soon.

Personally i don't believe he doped, just because he beat guys who were on drugs doesnt mean he cant be better than them naturally. Im sure there were cyclists doping during the days of Mercx and Indurain but nobody is always saying how they must have been doping or they wouldnt have been so dominant. Innocent until proven guilty in my eyes.

 

[Tetedelacourse]

Ok, i havent read the book in a long time, but my understanding of it was that Landis and Armstrong never really saw eye to eye, and though Armstrong knew Landis had talent, they were never really 'inseparable buddies'. But i may be wrong or have gotten the wrong end of the stick..ill read it again soon.

Personally i don't believe he doped, just because he beat guys who were on drugs doesnt mean he cant be better than them naturally. Im sure there were cyclists doping during the days of Mercx and Indurain but nobody is always saying how they must have been doping or they wouldnt have been so dominant. Innocent until proven guilty in my eyes.

The great Edward himself has admitted so on several occassions. Indurain hasn't but his reaction to Riis' confession spoke volumes for me.

IIRC Frazer is closer in describing the relationship between Lance and Floyd.

 

[Frazer]

The great Edward himself has admitted so on several occassions.

wow, i never knew that...its funny how your opinion of someone can change in a flash.

 

[Tetedelacourse]

Hinault too. Both distanced themselves from Festina-onwards-revelations by the nature of what they took - the argument about physiological versus mental gains made.

 

[romeo]

So apart from Fankie Andreau saying they were all encouraged by LA to dope, Steve Swart saying the same thing, Jonathan Vaughters explaining how USPS/Discovery bring in the blood by motorbike on rest days, Actovegin syringes being dumped by the team secretly midway through TdF, his personal assistant alleging steroid use, his soigneur detailing how a positive drugs test was magiced away with a phoney prescription, Betsy detailing the HGH Cortisone, Testosterone, EPO hopsital drug admission, his actions against whistleblowers Bassons and Simeoni, one of his best friends conveniently being in charge of USA Cycling and responsible for Out of Competition drug testing or its lack of, him and his team mates selling their houses in france and moving to spain when france started getting heavy on drug cheats, his coach Chris Carmichael being involved in doping junior riders and making them sick, his team employing 4 (four) of the dodgiest cycling doctors possbible at the same time, having epo retrospecitvely found in his urine dating from a period when there was no test for epo and using the expertise of blood boosting doctor michele ferrari.

So, apart from all that, lets get one thing straight... Lance Armstrong definitely did NOT use drugs