La Vuelta a Espana 22/8 - 13/9 2015 (here be spoilers)

[mjr]

I cherish all of my grudges that have been going so long the origins are lost in the mists of time.

His playacting avoidance of Matt Rendell's question (probably about that booster bottle) didn't do anything to change my view.

 

[JohnClimber]

 

[oldroadman]

Commissaries sticky bottle it with Bouhanni. 100CHF fine according to the ITV highlights show, but still in the race. It was nowhere near as blatant as Nibali's taxi ride, but the decision will only feed Nibble's/Astana's persecution complex.

That's the point - a sticky bottle is one thing and worth a fine, the blatant grab on the car/bottle and nip off the front of a group with everyone watching at about 80kph is entirely another matter. This is why commissaires train for ages and have to apply years of experience to their decisions. Personally I respect them, they get a lot less in the back pocket (if much at all) than even riders on the minimum rate. Still it's easy to see it all and point fingers when you are not in the race and making dynamic decisions, knowing what is important and what is not.

 

[ColinJ]

It seemed fair enough to me ... blatant cheating to improve position = disqualification; a little bit of help while you are feeling battered and getting your head together, not much advantage gained = slap on the wrist, and a warning not to do it again!

 

[deptfordmarmoset]

That's the point - a sticky bottle is one thing and worth a fine, the blatant grab on the car/bottle and nip off the front of a group with everyone watching at about 80kph is entirely another matter. This is why commissaires train for ages and have to apply years of experience to their decisions. Personally I respect them, they get a lot less in the back pocket (if much at all) than even riders on the minimum rate. Still it's easy to see it all and point fingers when you are not in the race and making dynamic decisions, knowing what is important and what is not.

Agreed. A different order of infringement. Besides, he didn't look as if he even wanted to be on a bike at that point. The only real support he got was psychological, but the physical part was blatant. A bind for the commissaires after yesterday's decision

 

[Cathryn]

That pic of the Astana team car! Perfection!

 

[JMAG]

They should just make towing legal like rollerball. That would liven things up a bit

 

[HF2300]

I've just watched the video. Maybe they did (wouldn't you, if you're not a GC rider and no longer have one on the front to slipstream?), but WTH was the driver thinking putting the foot down that much???

Oh, absolutely, just amused me. Not only what was the driver thinking, but what was Nibali thinking still holding on when the car accelerated? Everyone does dull things now and again, but that was particularly dull from someone who's supposed to have good race awareness.

Yes, Karma indeed. It was only a few weeks ago that Nibali was recalling how Froome took a help from a team car in 2010 in order to justify his behaviour when Froome dropped his chain. Poetic justice, but a shame for the Vuelta.

After the Tour I don't ever expect a Sky team where Froome is leader to wait for Nibali. He can't really complain without being hypocritical.

Can't help feeling this Instant Karma / Froome vs Nibali / Sky vs Astana / 'Remember the Tour' business is getting a bit old now. How far should the karma go back, and to who? Sky (including Froome) and others have done their share of dubious things in the past; probably most of the top GC guys have infringed the written and unwritten rules at times.

If the commenters on here had bothered to check the UCI site, the rule is clear. Hold on to a car and gain any kind of advantage, out you go.

I'm not sure anyone said the rule wasn't clear, or that he shouldn't be excluded?

That's the point - a sticky bottle is one thing and worth a fine, the blatant grab on the car/bottle and nip off the front of a group with everyone watching at about 80kph is entirely another matter...

...Nibali hurtling off into the distance was blatant and he deserved to go, and the sticky bottle is a separate offence with a lesser penalty anyway (presumably why Bouhanni wasn't chucked out, and why Nibali was stupid not to just take a big sticky bottle without engaging warp speed); but at what point does the rider holding on to the door top while the mechanic leans out of the car (Itself an offence) and pretends to adjust the seat or brakes become a disqualification matter?

I saw that Nibali had accused Caleb Ewan of causing the crash yesterday - wrongly as it turns out.
Reminiscent of his wild and erroneous attack on Froomedawg at the Tdf.
He's becoming a bit of a twat

Certainly lost a lot of his class this year. Don't remember him being this much of a nobber in previous years. Wonder if the goings on at Astana are getting to him?

 

[mjr]

The Astana situation must be getting to Nibali. I don't understand why else he keeps inviting scorn, such as pointing out Froome's Giro disqualification for grabbing a moto. Of course then people will be keen to see him get disqualified for grabbing a car.

 

[themosquitoking]

Just dropped someone off at Málaga airport and saw tiralongo there looking very broken and alone.

 

[Hont]

Just dropped someone off at Málaga airport and saw tiralongo there looking very broken and alone.

Was Nibali there too? Sat on his suitcase holding onto a baggage trolley as it sped towards the departure lounge.

 

[oldroadman]

at what point does the rider holding on to the door top while the mechanic leans out of the car (Itself an offence) and pretends to adjust the seat or brakes become a disqualification matter?




It doesn't if the car isn't moving faster than everyone else. There are some things that happen in races that sensible commissaires simply don't see, because although technical offences, they do nothing to alter the outcome of the race. This is what experience teaches. It all helps the fines pot, though, and teams at any decent level have a budget for just that, because when you skirt the limit of the rules (written and sometimes unwritten, we have all done that) sometimes it's a few Swiss francs to the UCI. All a bit of a game, some you win, some you lose! There's a funny old rule which says that leaning out of moving cars to "grease chains" is forbidden. Nothing about brake adjustments, altering seat height, etc., just don't be naughty and lean out of the car - kerching!, that'll be 50 SFr please, team whoever.

 

[mjr]

Yesterday's on-board videos (HT Eurosport, playing them before today's live video). About 1m03, it looks like Bouhanni was the first man down in the pile-up?

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohr1xUZs0Vw

 

[Bollo]

That's the point - a sticky bottle is one thing and worth a fine, the blatant grab on the car/bottle and nip off the front of a group with everyone watching at about 80kph is entirely another matter. This is why commissaires train for ages and have to apply years of experience to their decisions. Personally I respect them, they get a lot less in the back pocket (if much at all) than even riders on the minimum rate. Still it's easy to see it all and point fingers when you are not in the race and making dynamic decisions, knowing what is important and what is not.

I'm not disagreeing and think both decisions were correct. The point I was making was that, given the high profile nature of Nibble's DQ, the commissaires might have felt under greater pressure to punish similar infractions, even though the degree of offence was far lower.

 

[Flying_Monkey]

I am now almost 100% sure that Nibali will not be at Astana next season, and probably most of his Italian entourage will be going with him, wherever it is he is going.