Henao was a disappointment but having a reasonably duff Vuelta after the shenanigans of the Giro and the spotlight of the TdF isn't all bad. When all is said and done I think Sky might need to look at their training programmes for some riders and their strategy in some of the races.
La Vuelta 2013 (24 Aug - 15 Sept) **SPOILERS**
- Thread starter smutchin
- Start date
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Noodley
Guest
What could the UCI have gained from helping Armstrong? What did they have to lose if it ever came out?
Flying_Monkey
Recyclist
- Location
- Odawa
Armstrong was a particularly pernicious example who needed to be dealt with because he was flaunting his cheating and his actions were corrupting to the sport, however he wasn't the only one, and he won't be the last. And it's not really just because of Armstrong that suspicions are rife around Horner, is it?
thom
____
- Location
- The Borough
Or perhaps USADA were just slightly inept...
Horner has already been tested during the race by ASO many times - USADA are a very underfunded body and have shown remarkable tenacity in bringing down Lance, indeed naming Horner in their report as well. It was a weekend. Perhaps it was just simple human error.
OP
OP
smutchin
Cat 6 Racer
- Location
- The Red Enclave
My understanding (which I admit may be inaccurate or incomplete) is that there are different kinds of tests. The in-race tests are specifically for banned substances, but apparently, Horner has also been tested a lot out of competition this year, which suggests that USADA are monitoring his blood profile for irregular changes. They obviously think he's someone worth keeping a close eye on. For reasons that are best known to themselves. You can imagine why they'd be keen to check on his blood profile at the end of a three week GT, especially when his performances seem (at face value) not to have diminished over those three weeks...
thom
____
- Location
- The Borough
It all sounds a mess then - surely the in competition tests can be re-used by USADA. I guess it came about because race organisers such as ASO were not convinced of the integrity of UCI/ADA testing, which is a tragedy.
Reports were of lots of blood tests over the past 18 months for Horner, interpreted as if he'd been singled out for blood profiling. I wonder how different that is to other US cyclists though - I would not be surprised if USADA had ramped up testing across the board as they got more traction with the USPostal revelations, of course paying more attention to all of those that were operating close to Armstrong at some point or other.
Hont
Guru
- Location
- Bromsgrove
Looks like they're targetting Horner...
8 USADA tests in 2013
c/w
Talansky 1,
Stetina 3
Phinney 4.
Horner tested by USADA 16 times last year.
8 USADA tests in 2013
c/w
Talansky 1,
Stetina 3
Phinney 4.
Horner tested by USADA 16 times last year.
Pedrosanchezo
Veteran
- Location
- Perthshire, scotland
IS this legit? How could it be allowed that some are tested more than others? In Europe riders have to account for their whereabouts 24/7 so that they can be tested any time. If you are awol 3 times then a ban is served.
Don't understand USADA's purpose if they test some more than others. Is it because that persons (Horner in this case) bio passport is showing some iffy figures/levels?
Pedrosanchezo
Veteran
- Location
- Perthshire, scotland
I don't think we can use a past example, Armstrong affair and 2 questions, to answer my questions. That's just naughty.
I also don't have an answer to your Q's.
DogTired
Über Member
- Location
- Floating on a sea of vimto.
Well, let's see...
He's come from nowhere to... Nope
He's absolutely smashed the field to... Nope
He's got suspicious power figures.... Nope
He's beaten the best in the world... Nope
He's raced far more than anyone else this year but has 'remarkable' powers of recovery. Nope to that too.
He's had suspicions around him for years and has aggressively pursued anyone who spoke against him. Nope.
He's had a team, similarly treated, that could support his performances. Nope.
He's won a GT and there's no explanation as to how he did this. Tick box.
He's a merkin and a bit arrogant. Tick box.
OP
OP
smutchin
Cat 6 Racer
- Location
- The Red Enclave
Noodley
Guest
At least you are right on that count.
Hont
Guru
- Location
- Bromsgrove
DogTired
Über Member
- Location
- Floating on a sea of vimto.
Tried to format the text better but couldnt....
He's come from nowhere to... n/a Armstrong was world champion, won San Sebastian and Flech Wallone pre-cancer But its not clear if these were pre-drugs results. Horner gave no previous indication that he could perform at this level in a grand tour. (Human beings have given no previous indication that you can peek athletically at 41). He's top 10'd in a GT - also no-ones saying he's peaking athletically - his results has peaked which is a different thing as it depends on the opposition and whether everything is like for like.
He's absolutely smashed the field to... Nope
He's got suspicious power figures....Yep Horner's power values would be suspicious even if he wasn't 41. See many previous posts in the thread. Armchair sportsman can sometimes make a point - armchair scientists on the internet rarely so.
He's beaten the best in the world...Yep Nibali, Valverde and Rodriguez are amongst the best climbers in the world and that's where Horner won. He won over the 3 weeks, climbing is a major part but it is a 3 week gig. His average power values are reportedly higher (average, peak, climbing, descending, 5 min peak, in the red zone???) than Froome's from this year's tour. This years TdF was supposed to be a climbers tour and Froome and Quintana were higher placed. Richie Porte might be pretty nifty if he wasnt playing 2nd fiddle. Nibali wasnt in the TdF so hard to compare. Valverde came 8th in the TdF. So its stretching the best in the world bit to some good riders at the end of a long season.
He's raced far more than anyone else this year but has 'remarkable' powers of recovery. n/a Armstrong barely raced at all latterly and only tried to win one race per year. Horner has been injured all year yet some how managed to train enough to out-climb everyone in a hilly grand tour. But this is the Sky philosophy of training to win, not race to get fit, a philosophy which is working quite well. Maybe Radioshack have read Wiggins' book?
He's had suspicions around him for years and has aggressively pursued anyone who spoke against him. Yep. That can be said about pretty much every pro rider if you vary the threshold - can't find anything on aggressively pursuing accusers...
He's had a team, similarly treated, that could support his performances. Nope.
He's come from nowhere to... n/a Armstrong was world champion, won San Sebastian and Flech Wallone pre-cancer But its not clear if these were pre-drugs results. Horner gave no previous indication that he could perform at this level in a grand tour. (Human beings have given no previous indication that you can peek athletically at 41). He's top 10'd in a GT - also no-ones saying he's peaking athletically - his results has peaked which is a different thing as it depends on the opposition and whether everything is like for like.
He's absolutely smashed the field to... Nope
He's got suspicious power figures....Yep Horner's power values would be suspicious even if he wasn't 41. See many previous posts in the thread. Armchair sportsman can sometimes make a point - armchair scientists on the internet rarely so.
He's beaten the best in the world...Yep Nibali, Valverde and Rodriguez are amongst the best climbers in the world and that's where Horner won. He won over the 3 weeks, climbing is a major part but it is a 3 week gig. His average power values are reportedly higher (average, peak, climbing, descending, 5 min peak, in the red zone???) than Froome's from this year's tour. This years TdF was supposed to be a climbers tour and Froome and Quintana were higher placed. Richie Porte might be pretty nifty if he wasnt playing 2nd fiddle. Nibali wasnt in the TdF so hard to compare. Valverde came 8th in the TdF. So its stretching the best in the world bit to some good riders at the end of a long season.
He's raced far more than anyone else this year but has 'remarkable' powers of recovery. n/a Armstrong barely raced at all latterly and only tried to win one race per year. Horner has been injured all year yet some how managed to train enough to out-climb everyone in a hilly grand tour. But this is the Sky philosophy of training to win, not race to get fit, a philosophy which is working quite well. Maybe Radioshack have read Wiggins' book?
He's had suspicions around him for years and has aggressively pursued anyone who spoke against him. Yep. That can be said about pretty much every pro rider if you vary the threshold - can't find anything on aggressively pursuing accusers...
He's had a team, similarly treated, that could support his performances. Nope.
