I don't think Purito will win the Vuelta (although I'd be over the moon if he did) but I hope he can at least leap-frog Valverde.
Bring on the Angryglue!
La Vuelta 2013 (24 Aug - 15 Sept) **SPOILERS**
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Bring on the Angryglue!
Yeah me too.I don't think Purito will win the Vuelta (although I'd be over the moon if he did) but I hope he can at least leap-frog Valverde.
Bring on the Angryglue!
If he did win it he'd have to be riding at extraordinary levels to put 2mins into Horner. Nibs could crack early if katusha get it together on 'angry glue' (lol)
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smutchin
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Wow. Very interesting comment - only just short of a direct accusation. Very interesting indeed.
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smutchin
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Full story of the Nibali remarks here:
http://velonews.competitor.com/2013/09/news/horner-pushes-the-power-numbers-at-the-vuelta_302720
Equivocal, perhaps, but a fairly strong hint at what he's really thinking.
http://velonews.competitor.com/2013/09/news/horner-pushes-the-power-numbers-at-the-vuelta_302720
Equivocal, perhaps, but a fairly strong hint at what he's really thinking.
Hmmm, those power readings are significant.
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I suspected that's what he thought. Him and Valverde have been having sly digs for a while now.
This quote of yore, slightly amended and updated springs to mind:
I like this quote:
“For sure, Horner breaks the mold due to his age, but compared to what he’s done the past several years, there is nothing extreme in what he is doing,” RadioShack trainer Josu Larrazabal told VeloNews. “These performances are reasonable. Chris is hitting the same numbers he’s been hitting all of his career.”
Yeah, well, he's been on the juice most of his career. I am not surprised that in his mind he is not cheating. He comes from that mindset. Lance didn't think there was anything wrong with what he did either. It is significant that he is having his career best results at a time when the vast majority of his competitors are clean.
“For sure, Horner breaks the mold due to his age, but compared to what he’s done the past several years, there is nothing extreme in what he is doing,” RadioShack trainer Josu Larrazabal told VeloNews. “These performances are reasonable. Chris is hitting the same numbers he’s been hitting all of his career.”
Yeah, well, he's been on the juice most of his career. I am not surprised that in his mind he is not cheating. He comes from that mindset. Lance didn't think there was anything wrong with what he did either. It is significant that he is having his career best results at a time when the vast majority of his competitors are clean.
thom
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They are if correct. That data makes me more concerned but we've had similar discussions about Chris Froome going up Ventoux.
I would be staggered if Horner is doping and thinks he can get away with it - the testing at the Giro caught out a few guys - how would he believe he could dodge that ?
True Thom - who made up the numbers I suppose if we're being analytical?
Smoke and mirrors. There are doubts, scepticism and very strong doubts but a +ve test or a blood passport anomaly would settle it better!
Pedrosanchezo
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Speculation seems rife and it doesn't seem to matter which athlete we are talking about any more. As long as they are performing better than their previous race or season then it seems reason enough to suspect them of cheating. All because of one lying cheating scumbag that fooled more than most!
As long as there is competition there will be cheats, but to call someone a cheat based on hearsay and rumour, or even past results, is far from reasonable.
For Horner to be doping, to the extent that some suggest, there would be zero chance of him passing doping tests and his bio passport would be significantly changed from when he was clean.
If he tests positive then the guy is everything he is currently accused of, but until that time then it is no more than mud slinging.
In fact for some they believe they cannot be wrong - if Horner tests positive then he is a cheat and if he doesn't then he is a clever or lucky cheat. Clean doesn't seem to be a possible scenario.
As long as there is competition there will be cheats, but to call someone a cheat based on hearsay and rumour, or even past results, is far from reasonable.
For Horner to be doping, to the extent that some suggest, there would be zero chance of him passing doping tests and his bio passport would be significantly changed from when he was clean.
If he tests positive then the guy is everything he is currently accused of, but until that time then it is no more than mud slinging.
In fact for some they believe they cannot be wrong - if Horner tests positive then he is a cheat and if he doesn't then he is a clever or lucky cheat. Clean doesn't seem to be a possible scenario.
thom
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But also the interpretation - as Brailsford says, none of the power data game is purely scientific. If this data is correct (and I have no reason to believe it is wrong as such, just to be fair you'd need to check), then it provides questions but still, I'm of the one step at a time mentality and we have to allow for other explanations.
Agreed - and have we seen suspicious performances recently that have not been tainted by drug tests ? Even the guy who won the tour of Turkey has been sprung in the aftermath.
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smutchin
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Indeed. But you don't need a highly calibrated Quackometer to recognise that Horner is quacking very much like a duck.
Occam's razor, and all that.
thom
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The same was said to some degree for the winners of the past grand tours from some quarter or another: Froome, Nibali, Contador, Wiggins...
Occam's razor, being a guide for heuristic reasoning based upon fewest assumptions inferring plausibility of conclusion, is fair enough as a non-rigorous justification of scepticism but it does not pretend to provide irrefutable conclusions.
Be careful not to take note of the assumptions each side of the argument makes, not just the opposing one.
