Knowing Where We Stand

[beastie]

Assume that an individual has the physical attributes required for their chosen discipline- for instance tall enough for basketball, then there is a magic number of time required to achieve excellence. Lots of training and PURPOSEFUL practice. About 10000 hours over 10 years seems to do it. This topic has been well researched and the general consensus is that talent is almost inconsequential, it is the development of expertise that counts. Of course without great mental strength and inner motivation then 20 hours a week of intelligent and purposeful training is unlikely. So you need those. And it helps if you start around 8 to 12 years old or else you are playing catch up.

Anyone racked up 10000 hours training before they were twentyish?

 

[PaulB]

This topic has been well researched and the general consensus is that talent is almost inconsequential, it is the development of expertise that counts.

I'd say Usain Bolt had plenty of talent, wouldn't you? And Michael Johnson. And Ian Rush and Michael Owen tended not to do too much in the way of training relying primarily on instinct and talent. That seemed to work.

 

[yello]

This topic has been well researched and the general consensus is that talent is almost inconsequential, it is the development of expertise that counts.

I'd accept that. I'd expect it to be true of the great majority of players (used in the general sense) in any discipline, be they TdF domestiques, prem footballers, chorus line, backing singers, etc etc etc etc

the exceptions prove the rule (whatever that means)... or in the bold, the "almost" bit

I reckon for all the cannon fodder also rans (harsh, I know!), there are the very very few genuine geniuses. Those that have a rare and exceptional talent. No doubt that they work hard too to develop themselves but they started a cut above to begin with.

I'm sure John Terry was a talented footballer at school, and worked damned hard to be where he is today, but Lionel Messi is that rare gifted genius that makes it all look ludicrously natural.

 

[gb155]

Good Topic

If I had the desire I have now, when I was a kid and didnt pile the weight on etc, then I'd like to dream that I could have at least won one race, somewhere.

 

[vorsprung]

.. there is a magic number of time required to achieve excellence. Lots of training and PURPOSEFUL practice. About 10000 hours over 10 years seems to do it. This topic has been well researched and the general consensus is that talent is almost inconsequential...

This isn't my reading of how selection of Pro riders happens. It's not just a question of having a pair of legs and being a "good" bike rider. You need a freakishly good oxygen capacity and the ability to develop an insane level of aerobic fitness. This is a genetic requirement.

I could train for the 10000 hours (if I was a suitable age) and never get to the vo2 max score of 80+. Whereas some people have this straight off the sofa. This explains why if you look at a top riders biog they sometimes mention their first 10 mile time trial ( particularly if they are a UK based amateur ) and their time is usually in the low 20 minutes, which most people would train for years and years to get to.

Talent is not "inconsequential". Natural talent and training commitment are both needed

 

[ColinJ]

I could train for the 10000 hours (if I was a suitable age) and never get to the vo2 max score of 80+. Whereas some people have this straight off the sofa.

A friend of mine used to be sports-mad. He was in all the teams at school. When he left school, he got a job as a factory labourer doing heavy manual work which made him strong. He commuted to work by bike. He was pretty fit.

His younger brother, on the other hand, did bugger-all exercise. My mate said that despite that, his brother could give him a 100 metres start in a 400 metre race and still beat him. Natural athletic talent!

 

[montage]

Good Topic

If I had the desire I have now, when I was a kid and didnt pile the weight on etc, then I'd like to dream that I could have at least won one race, somewhere.

Have you started time trialling/road racing yet? Never too late

 

[GrumpyGregry]

Good Topic

If I had the desire I have now, when I was a kid and didnt pile the weight on etc, then I'd like to dream that I could have at least won one race, somewhere.

Age is just a number. you are never to old to win a race. somewhere.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

Talent is not "inconsequential". Natural talent and training commitment are both needed

as is, I'd argue, opportunity. For all i know I may have been as good a cricketer as my uncle who played for minor counties north but I went to school(s) and lived in communites where cricket wasn't played.

there are probably thousands of individuals with the genes and talent to excel in thousands of sports who just never get the chance to try 'their' sport.

 

[Flying_Monkey]

Age is just a number. you are never to old to win a race. somewhere.

This is true. I won my first 10k running race this year at the age of 38, having trained hard over the winter - so hard in fact that I got a stress fracture in my foot!

 

[beastie]

I'd say Usain Bolt had plenty of talent, wouldn't you? And Michael Johnson. And Ian Rush and Michael Owen tended not to do too much in the way of training relying primarily on instinct and talent. That seemed to work.

Granted there are people who have freshly stunning natural ability like Usain Bolt. I would point out that Michael Johnson was known as one of the hardest trainers around, and also one of the best at aiming said training correctly. A certain amount of natural athletic ability married to a huge level of training and a burning desire to improve.

Jack Nicholas said that it wasn't the ability to make great shots the secret of his success but that he hit less bad shots than everybody else. This he attributed to his huge appetite for practise, and that every single shot he hit in training had a specific goal, training which he designed to make him continually strive for the next level in consistency.

He believes it was hard work not any god given ability which led him to succeed.

Tiger Woods, David Beckham, Roger Federal all worked there asses off.

10000 hours of correct training will bot guarantee you of being the best but there are very few top top performers of any kind, sporting or academic, who got there on talent and not graft.

 

[beastie]

Roger Federal being the predictive cousin of his tennis playing master

 

[Brahan]

Granted there are people who have freshly stunning natural ability like Usain Bolt. I would point out that Michael Johnson was known as one of the hardest trainers around, and also one of the best at aiming said training correctly. A certain amount of natural athletic ability married to a huge level of training and a burning desire to improve.

I watched a doc about Johnson and his coaching methods. With slow motion video he took Bolt's running style totally apart and highlighted what he considered glaring flaws in his technique. Very interesting stuff. Bolt's leg angle in his first few strides from the start were of particular interest. Johnson reckoned that Bolt had a 'long' way to go before acheiving his full potential. Scary huh?

EDIT: I should add that the video in question was of his 100 metre world record!

 

[Angelfishsolo]

I am a far better Mountain Biker in my dreams. I can do all the fancy jumps, hops, track-stands, et al that I can't do in the waking world.

The thing I do think about though is Triathlon. I used to be a County Standard runner and a fair distance swimmer (not fast) in my youth. If I had got into cycling as well who knows. Far too late now unless I manage to loose about 4 stone

 

[Angelfishsolo]

The corollary to that is that if a naturally talented person is de-constructed they can end up loosing whatever it is that gives them the edge.

I watched a doc about Johnson and his coaching methods. With slow motion video he took Bolt's running style totally apart and highlighted what he considered glaring flaws in his technique. Very interesting stuff. Bolt's leg angle in his first few strides from the start were of particular interest. Johnson reckoned that Bolt had a 'long' way to go before acheiving his full potential. Scary huh?

EDIT: I should add that the video in question was of his 100 metre world record!