Italian bikes

[Mr Haematocrit]

What makes a bike Italian?
A Pinerello has Torayca Carbon purchased from Japan
The frame is produced on the Taiwan mainland.
The bearings come from Denmark..

Ooohh they put the stickers on them and put the bikes in boxes in Italy

 

[Cuchilo]

I hope they don't make them like their tanks , all reverse gears and one forward incase they get attacked from behind

 

[Shadowfax]

' Aggh! Campag shite is made of cheese!' These words are screamed on a regular basis from the workshop, drive and road, I can even here the rant in the village.

 

[LimeBurn]

I have only ever owned Shimano and Sram equipped bikes - but if any of my bikes were italian then yes they would be equipped with Campagnolo. There are some things that just should be.

 

[Mr Haematocrit]

Threads like this though remind me why I no longer have any Italian bikes.
Your not buying a bike, your joining a friggin cult
Carbon composite bikes from Italy are no more special than any others on the market and the reality is probably less so as 80% of the world composite experts and manufacturing knowledge is located in Asia which is why Boeing is recruiting extensively from this area as composite use in aircraft design increases.
IMHO its a shame we continue to not credit Asia as being the world leaders in composites and place higher regard on product which have had stickers applied by the nation that gave us the Fiat Multipla.

If you want an Italian bike, forget the groupset and find an old steel Colnago or someone's grandad making beautiful bespoke frames in his garage with traditional techniques.

 

[Cuchilo]

That's why I bought Giant .

 

[StuAff]

Threads like this though remind me why I no longer have any Italian bikes.
Your not buying a bike, your joining a friggin cult
Carbon composite bikes from Italy are no more special than any others on the market and the reality is probably less so as 80% of the world composite experts and manufacturing knowledge is located in Asia which is why Boeing is recruiting extensively from this area as composite use in aircraft design increases.
IMHO its a shame we continue to not credit Asia as being the world leaders in composites and place higher regard on product which have had stickers applied by the nation that gave us the Fiat Multipla.

If you want an Italian bike, forget the groupset and find an old steel Colnago or someone's grandad making beautiful bespoke frames in his garage with traditional techniques.

First, in answer to the OP's question, I have two Italian-built (and yes, Mr H, I mean Italian-built) frames with Campagnolo groupset and wheels. The Viner came that way, and when it got new parts Campagnolo was my first choice. Partly it just seemed fitting, but mostly because I liked the parts and the way they worked. That was far more important. The other two bikes have Shimano on.

Next, Campagnolo has no manufacturing facility outside Europe. The main plant in Vicenza, and Romania. Nowhere else. They do not subcontract.

And oh dear oh dear, please get your facts right Mr H. Plenty of bike manufacture remains in Italy. High end and with price tags to match for the most part, admittedly... Colnago still make the Master and the C60 at their own plant. Dedacciai, making tubing and frames for their own brand and many others (plus Deda Elementi components). Sarto. Fondriest. Cipollini. Viner, now owned by Planet X, just relaunching with all but the cheapest models made in Italy. Formigli. The deservedly named Legend (Marco Bertoletti's been building pro-level frames for forty years and still innovating)....probably quite a few others that didn't spring to mind. Most of this lot can sell you a bike for you, personally, your exact sizing, your requirements for riding style and ride qualities, not just a bike that happens to fit you and suit you. You made a good point about Asian industry being as good if not better than anyone else's, but Italians (and Brits, and Americans, and Dutchmen, and Germans, and Belgians, and Czechs.....) can still make very, very, very, good bikes too.

Do Specialized make anything at all in the US, by the way?

 

[Gravity Aided]

. Cannondale, GT and Mongoose did, as well as Schwinn, but they are all now made in China for Dorel. I think Specialized has some tubing and other nuances that cause their bicycles to be higher spec and maybe tighter manufacturing tolerance. I always thought of Specialized as a place that had a lot of things made for them, and put them together. They got their start bringing Cinelli components into the US. But if you want a US made bicycle, get a Waterford. http://waterfordbikes.com.

 

[Mr Haematocrit]

And oh dear oh dear, please get your facts right Mr H. Plenty of bike manufacture remains in Italy. High end and with price tags to match for the most part, admittedly... Colnago still make the Master and the C60 at their own plant. Dedacciai, making tubing and frames for their own brand and many others (plus Deda Elementi components). Sarto. Fondriest. Cipollini. Viner, now owned by Planet X, just relaunching with all but the cheapest models made in Italy. Formigli. The deservedly named Legend (Marco Bertoletti's been building pro-level frames for forty years and still innovating)....probably quite a few others that didn't spring to mind.

Do Specialized make anything at all in the US, by the way?

I'm not disputing at all what you say and most certainly agree with it to some degree which is why I stated if you want an Italian bike experience buy a Colnago or a frame made by a craftsmen using traditional methods.
Personally I dislike companies such as Pinerello who ride on the back of craftsmen and pretend they are something special, something exotic which is far from the case.

The frame set for the s-works allez team edition was manufactured solely in the US if your interested and the result was well overpriced IMHO

Personally I could not care where my bikes or components came from but am of the opinion that mass produced stuff sold by Italy of decent quality is usually made by someone else.
It took VAG to recloth a Audi R8 to make a decent and reliable Lamborghini. Ducatti is no longer owned by an Italian company.

Italian cycling history and bespoke craftsmanship exists in specialist builders and these bikes should be cherished as a thing of beauty like any bike lovingly built by a craftsmen from any nation, but to suggest a bike should be treated different or that its a terrible thing to use certain components based on where it came from I find really strange and slightly amusing.
Not every bike claimed to originate from Italy is good, heck some are not even that specialized

 

[StuAff]

I'm not disputing at all what you say and most certainly agree with it to some degree which is why I stated if you want an Italian bike experience buy a Colnago or a frame made by a craftsmen using traditional methods.
Personally I dislike companies such as Pinerello who ride on the back of craftsmen and pretend they are something special, something exotic which is far from the case.

The frame set for the s-works allez team edition was manufactured solely in the US if your interested and the result was well overpriced IMHO

Personally I could not care where my bikes or components came from but am of the opinion that mass produced stuff sold by Italy of decent quality is usually made by someone else.
It took VAG to recloth a Audi R8 to make a decent and reliable Lamborghini. Ducatti is no longer owned by an Italian company.

Italian cycling history and bespoke craftsmanship exists in specialist builders and these bikes should be cherished as a thing of beauty like any bike lovingly built by a craftsmen from any nation, but to suggest a bike should be treated different or that its a terrible thing to use certain components based on where it came from I find really strange and slightly amusing.
Not every bike claimed to originate from Italy is good, heck some are not even that specialized

We agree that quality and value are far more important than where it's made. You're happy to drop three or four grand on a monocoque made in a huge factory when for the same money you could have got a made-to-measure custom carbon frame from artisans. I'd be happy with plenty of the former, but I'd probably choose the latter. Your money, your choice- each have their own advantages.

Not entirely fair on Lamborghini or Ducati- pretty sure Italians make up the vast majority of the workforce at both companies, and most companies in the motor industry have shared ideas and technology and multinational staff (Porsche had efficiency lessons from Toyota, for example). I wouldn't argue with the point about Pinarello much, though they (unlike certain others) do not disguise the fact their frame manufacturing is far eastern.

 

[Big Nick]

There's very few companies who source/build everything for a product in their home country.

The whole exercise nowadays is in branding and buying into the name as you'd like to think a company know what they're doing if people have been buying into their products for over 100 years

I've just bought a Bianchi and would I have bought exactly the same bike with a different company name on? Possibly, but not as readily I think

Yes you 'pay for the name' with some brands but reputation doesn't just happen overnight.

Yes, I'm a bit of a brand snob with most of my stuff and a marketing directors dream but I personally wouldn't be happy buying unless the brand name was right for me

 

[youngoldbloke]

Do you think italian bikes should all come with campag instead of shimano??
Interested in your views?

To return to the OP - why should this be? Nationality of groupset must match that of frame? We're not going to get far are we? British Frame - ??? groupset?

 

[youngoldbloke]

Yes you 'pay for the name' with some brands but reputation doesn't just happen overnight.

Yes, I'm a bit of a brand snob with most of my stuff and a marketing directors dream but I personally wouldn't be happy buying unless the brand name was right for me

 

[Big Nick]

I still wouldn't buy a brand if the product itself was crap though!

 

[Gravity Aided]

All in the level of manufacture. In the 1970's, K-Mart over here in the states sold an Italian bike in their All-Pro Line. I believe it was a Chiorda.Not a spectacular bicycle in any respect. I recently traded 2 good aluminum bicycles for an American made Cannondale from the 1990s. Best riding and best geometry on an aluminum bicycle I've run across. I think bicycle choice has a lot to do with rider preference and response.