Is this all a cyclists life is worth

[I like Skol]

I agree that the action of cycling is not one of taking risk. The danger is purely due to the tolerated lawlessness that exists on the roads and an apparent total lack of any kind of enforcement.
Every time I venture out on the roads by car or bicycle I see dozens of obvious driving offences, both vehicle faults and drivers actions. Usually there are multiple infringements related to a single vehicle (reckless/dangerous driving in a vehicle that has several obvious faults).
If I were a police officer I reckon I could easily fill an entire shift just actioning these crimes and remove many dangerous drivers and vehicles from the roads.
These are the metaphorical 'low hanging fruit', the easy pickings, and give one of the biggest paybacks in terms of making the public feel safer. As it is, people don't even feel safe crossing the road with any certainty that traffic will stop for a red light.

 

[ebikeerwidnes]

I agree that the action of cycling is not one of taking risk. The danger is purely due to the tolerated lawlessness that exists on the roads and an apparent total lack of any kind of enforcement.
Every time I venture out on the roads by car or bicycle I see dozens of obvious driving offences, both vehicle faults and drivers actions. Usually there are multiple infringements related to a single vehicle (reckless/dangerous driving in a vehicle that has several obvious faults).
If I were a police officer I reckon I could easily fill an entire shift just actioning these crimes and remove many dangerous drivers and vehicles from the roads.
These are the metaphorical 'low hanging fruit', the easy pickings, and give one of the biggest paybacks in terms of making the public feel safer. As it is, people don't even feel safe crossing the road with any certainty that traffic will stop for a red light.

It may be 'low hanging fruit' and if it was applied fully across the whole country it would probably have an effect over time
and it would require a lot of Police officers to do it
but it would eventually save lives

But the headlines in 'those' newspapers about a "war on the motorist" would be deafening (can a headline be deafening??)

and the politicians and senior Police people would come under a lot of pressure to "solve proper crimes" rather than handing out fines to 'innocent' motorists that just slipped over the speed limit for a minute (i.e. was driving at 90 for an hour always does that so it is normal)
and people would say that the officers should be diverted to make the streets safer for women (or other group currently in the news) which is just a diversion as they should be funded to do both

and, of course, the reduction in death and injuries would only be clear after you had stats from several years
by which time the political pressure would have forced the Police to make the effort far shorter than would have a permanent effect.

 

[I like Skol]

It may be 'low hanging fruit' and if it was applied fully across the whole country it would probably have an effect over time
and it would require a lot of Police officers to do it
but it would eventually save lives

But the headlines in 'those' newspapers about a "war on the motorist" would be deafening (can a headline be deafening??)

and the politicians and senior Police people would come under a lot of pressure to "solve proper crimes" rather than handing out fines to 'innocent' motorists that just slipped over the speed limit for a minute (i.e. was driving at 90 for an hour always does that so it is normal)
and people would say that the officers should be diverted to make the streets safer for women (or other group currently in the news) which is just a diversion as they should be funded to do both

and, of course, the reduction in death and injuries would only be clear after you had stats from several years
by which time the political pressure would have forced the Police to make the effort far shorter than would have a permanent effect.

So let's not do anything because it is going to be unpopular with the vocal minority?

The cry that this 'will take lots of police and resources' is nonsense. All it needs is one dedicated unit per police district out on the roads using their eyes and stopping the vehicles that clearly have 'something not right'. It would remove a lot of dangerous vehicles from the road along with identifying a number of unlicensed and uninsured drivers. The police units would be very busy!

This is not about persecuting the motorists, or a cyclist vendetta against cars (let's face it, most of us are drivers too), but an effort to enforce basic laws and send a strong message that flagrant disregard of the law will not be ignored.
This makes the streets safer for us all, not just cyclists. Members of vulnerable groups should be reassured that the police are there to uphold the law and not just tidy up when something horrible happens.

 

[Drago]

and it would require a lot of Police officers to do it

There would be a lot more coppers to do this if, like my friend who shall remain nameless (Hi Ray!) is having to do this week they didn't pack them off on a 2 day course to teach them about white privilege. Yes, seriously.

I thought it was bad in the latter years of my time in with some of the ridiculous courses they wasted time and resources on, but apparently its getting daft now. You'd have thought they'd have learned when the fully able bodied diversity advisor got sacked for misconduct for parking in a disabled bay, but seemingly not...they think this is more important that spending those officer/hours patrolling the streets.

 

[T4tomo]

There would be a lot more coppers to do this if, like my friend who shall remain nameless (Hi Ray!) is having to do this week they didn't pack them off on a 2 day course to teach them about white privilege. Yes, seriously.

I thought it was bad in the latter years of my time in with some of the ridiculous courses they wasted time and resources on, but apparently its getting daft now. You'd have thought they'd have learned when the fully able bodied diversity advisor got sacked for misconduct for parking in a disabled bay, but seemingly not...they think this is more important that spending those officer/hours patrolling the streets.

Given events elsewhere, its clear there are a significant minority of the police that do need educating about diversity and white male privilege.

Its policy of how things are policed and decline in serving officer numbers in general, making the police less visible, not doing the odd bit of training which is part and parcel of almost every job.

 

[ebikeerwidnes]

There would be a lot more coppers to do this if, like my friend who shall remain nameless (Hi Ray!) is having to do this week they didn't pack them off on a 2 day course to teach them about white privilege. Yes, seriously.

I thought it was bad in the latter years of my time in with some of the ridiculous courses they wasted time and resources on, but apparently its getting daft now. You'd have thought they'd have learned when the fully able bodied diversity advisor got sacked for misconduct for parking in a disabled bay, but seemingly not...they think this is more important that spending those officer/hours patrolling the streets.

TWO DAYS!!!

You know when the government says that all teachers will receive training in some subject such as allergies or spotting sexual abuse or whatever
When I was a teacher we had something like that pretty much every year - sometimes 2-3 a year
generally amounted to someone talking at all staff for an hour after school on a Tuesday
and that sort of stuff can save lives

Although a lot of coppers seriously need some training in diversity (etc) if you seperated out all the different topics (white privilidge being a good example) and dedicate 2 days to each one - you could probably get to your 30 years pension point after only spending 2 weeks on the streets!

 

[I like Skol]

Let's not turn this into a police bashing exercise. We are only where we are due to dire mismanagement at a high level and political interference.

 

[Sterlo]

I meant nothing political when I started it, just wanted to make people aware. It's was a general abhoration at the lack of sentence.

 

[glasgowcyclist]

and the politicians and senior Police people would come under a lot of pressure to "solve proper crimes" rather than handing out fines to 'innocent' motorists

Follow some of the road policing accounts on Twitter and you'll see that many criminals are caught through enforcement of 'minor' road traffic offences. A simple stop for a minor violation can reveal more serious crimes, possession of drugs, offensive weapons, wanted criminals.

Peter Sutcliffe was caught because a couple of beat cops noticed his car registration number didn't match the tax disc displayed.

 

[Drago]

Given events elsewhere, its clear there are a significant minority of the police that do need educating about diversity and white male privilege.

Its policy of how things are policed and decline in serving officer numbers in general, making the police less visible, not doing the odd bit of training which is part and parcel of almost every job.

The training does nothing whatsoever to empower him to do his job.

The irony here is that Ray is a nice Jew boy like me, so under the governments own BAME guidance should be considered a minority group anyway, and not lumped in with 'white'. We both disagree on that, but thats what the government tell us, so thats they way they can have it. He saving that revelation for mid morning to see what excuse they come up with.

Lets take this little sideshow over to the Phantom Zone, which is a more appropriate place for it I guess. I'll ge registered.

Going back to topic, my best blag was someone wanted for rape and attempted murder. Sat behind his car in traffic and (being ex RPU) it struck me as odd that what appeared to be a new car had illegal plates - the font and all that was fine, but the makers name and postcode was missing from the bottom, and no dealer would allow this because of the big fines they face...and as such it made my spidey senses tingle.

I stopped him, reg checked on PNC, came back fine. Still not happy I checked the VIN, came back as a different Mondeo. Nicked suspicion TOMV, got him back to the shed and livescanned his prints and his true identity was revealed. Naughty boy.

That wouldn't have happened had I been in a classroom being lectured to. You gotta be in it to win it, not bored and switched off in a small room while someone talks down to you about something I wasn't responsible for anyway.

 

[Pale Rider]

According to the article, he pleaded guilty to Causing Death by Careless driving - for which the maximum sentence is 5 years, so I don't think that is right.

Chances are it's a cock up on the reporting front.

However, he might have pleaded guilty to death by careless, then the Crown went to trial on death by dangerous, leaving a jury to decide whether the driving was careless or dangerous.

Either way, he was sentenced for death by dangerous.

The sentence strikes me as a touch light, given the aggravating feature of being drugged.

It is consecutive to his recently imposed drugs sentence, so the judge may have taken the death by dangerous down a little to take account of the total he will serve.

Automatic parole for a lot of longer sentences is now only after two thirds (it was like that 20 years ago but abolished to assist overcrowding), so this bloke may have two thirds of the total of 11 to serve.

The final piece of arithmetic is the driving ban.

Judges now take into account likely time in custody and 'extend' the ban to prevent prisoners serving their ban in jail.

Eleven years quoted in the story suggests the judge was aiming for a meaningful ban of five years.

He will have to take an extended driving test once the ban has expired, which I'm told it's very rare for anyone to pass first time.

 

[I like Skol]

various studies have shown that high expectation of getting caught has far more deterrent effect than the level of sentence when(if) you do.

This is possibly the key statement in this thread so far. People are taking incredibly stupid risks because they simply do not believe they will mess up or get caught.

The only solution is to start policing the roads, and as @Drago anecdotally suggests, if you start at the bottom and give the tree a shake it can often be surprising what else falls out of the branches at the same time.

 

[T4tomo]

This is possibly the key statement in this thread so far. People are taking incredibly stupid risks because they simply do not believe they will mess up or get caught.

absolutely, this is why you can stand at any road junction as spot countless people texting and driving. Witness cars not moving in slow moving queues etc as the drivers are on their phones. The must be an instruction in the police somewhere to not waste there time policing this as no-one ever gets done for it unless there is an accident. so people continue t do it as there is no fear of being caught.

 

[a.twiddler]

It does seem to be a truism that people involved in illegal activities are less likely to waste their time on such tedious trivialities as having a Road Fund Licence, MOT, insurance or even a driving licence when even with the prevalence of ANPR they have a pretty good chance of not being detected. So spending more money on road policing is likely to be opening the door to detection of much more than strictly traffic related offences.

Whether increased training on awareness of modern issues is seriously affecting the ability of police forces to put boots on the ground or not, and continuous updating is a necessity for any profession, the important point is (and maybe I risk being redirected to NACA) that there are just not the resources available due to cost cuts over the last decade or maybe longer which needs to be remedied.

 

[Archie_tect]

The final piece of arithmetic is the driving ban.

Judges now take into account likely time in custody and 'extend' the ban to prevent prisoners serving their ban in jail.

Eleven years quoted in the story suggests the judge was aiming for a meaningful ban of five years.

He will have to take an extended driving test once the ban has expired, which I'm told it's very rare for anyone to pass first time.

If he bothers taking the test at all and just resumes driving regardless.