Is there a current backlash against cyclists?

[Bman]

Yeah, only the 17yo's with rich parents can afford the insurance on a 2.2L nowadays...

 

[ray.m]

Most drivers don't have the self confidence to sit behind a cyclist to wait for a safe opportunity to overtake even when they know that overtaking is a risk - their worry is that it is they who will be blamed for the long queue of traffic forming, and making everyone behind them late because they aren't capable of doing something so simple as overtake a cyclist. So they rush past unsafely for fear of all the bad thoughts they believe are building up behind that probably aren't even there to begin with.

absolutely spot on..

 

[abo]

Yeah, only the 17yo's with rich parents can afford the insurance on a 2.2L nowadays...

Gotta admit, I wouldn't like to be 17 nowadays and hunting for car insurance. Mind you, the kids these days aren't content to drive the same sort of cars as 'we' did back in the day. The first car I had (Mk2 Escort) cost £350, and needed working on all the time. driving/riding past the college I used to go to there seem to be few cars in the carpark under 5 years old. Possibly a good thing from a safety perspective mind The Escort cost the same to insure as it did to buy IIRC, so probably no change there then.

 

[Bicycle]

Ha ha.... My first car was a 2cv4 (the 435cc version) and cost me an apple and an old toffee to insure.

You can learn a great deal about driving from something with 25 bhp and the tyres from an old MTB.

But... my first motorcycle (only a 125) cost twice what I paid for it to cover. This was partly due to the ban that ended just after my 17th birthday, which I do not mention to my children if I can help it.

Amusingly (or not) I was asked to attend court with my license but admitted that I was there in the first place precisely because I was unable to do that. My youthful enthusiasm for underage driving was not looked upon kindly by the bench.

But how things move on... It just cost me £1000 to add my daughter (17) to a family hatchback while she learns....

I imagine it's all those uninsured 16-year-old scallies I'm paying the extra for. Little sods!

 

[yello]

I've been cycling regularly for 41-ish of my 47 years and have noticed little or no difference in attitudes to cycling from drivers and other road users.

A really enjoyable post Bicycle, thank you.

Fignon, a French biscuit guess than makes Anquetil a sausage!

 

[jackm]

IMHO (and I know there is a driving instructor lurking here lol) people are taught how to pass their test. At least, that's how it was with me. I'm sure I've posted somewhere before, I passed after 7 lessons aged 17 and basically turned loose. And being an immature teenager who had been given the keys to something with a 2.2 engine, what was the first thing I did with it? I'm not going to answer it here

Was that a safe thing to have happen? This was 22 years ago now though, I hope things have changed!

 

[abo]

Ha ha.... My first car was a 2cv4 (the 435cc version) and cost me an apple and an old toffee to insure.

You can learn a great deal about driving from something with 25 bhp and the tyres from an old MTB.

My mate had a 2CV, he proved it was possible to corner on two wheels. He also drove it for a while with a smashed windscreen after he threw the starter motor at it out of sheer frustration

 

[jackm]

That driving instructor is probably me...I imagine that ALL driving instructors would love to teach all their pupils all that they can, but unfortunately we are restricted by peoples budgets. Given the choice of 20 hours and scrape a test pass, or 70 hours and produce a really good new driver, if you're paying the bill, at 25 pounds per hour, hand on heart, which would you choose? It's easy to reply on a forum that you'd go for 70: or 50, or whatever, but in the real world 95 out of 100 will choose the cheaper option. Also, much to peoples amazement, we don't teach the kids to carve up cyclists, to drive with a mobile strapped to their ear, to speed in stupid places etc. We do (most of us, anyway!) Teach them the correct way of doing things. However these people have their own attitudes and opinions and tend to express them as soon as they have dispensed with their driving instructors and parents. Jack

 

[brockers]

I've been cycling regularly for 41-ish of my 47 years and have noticed little or no difference in attitudes to cycling from drivers and other road users.

I think that what may have appeared (to the outsider) to happen is that cycling has become significantly more high-profile and slightly tribal. This may make what was a fringe activity or simple daily practicality appear to be something more... something organised or tribal.

In my youth you either rode a bicycle or you didn't. You either had a bicycle of you didn't. Racing was a minority thing. Friends who rode Condor road-race bikes, competed and had rollers in the basement were few and far between. No-one could even say Colnago back in those days... it was all dark magic and whispers.

I think the profile began to change (London view here) in the mid-80s with the emergence of the early MTB and the cycle courier - although that was pre 'fixed-gear-fascination'........


........But I feel very little enmity when out riding - and certainly no more than I did in earlier life.

I cannot recall the last time I shook a fist at a car, had a word with the driver or knee-barged an FX4 (as I used to in the 80s). These days I spend a lot of time waving my thanks to drivers, but little of it feeling a need to admonish them. And I haven't lost my desire or ability to clip quickly through traffic, despite middle age.

It may also be that there's always a backlash there if you look for it... but I'm not sure I want to write that.

My thoughts entirely. If anything I feel as if I've had more courtesy extended to me in the last few years, possibly because of the profile of Wiggo, Cav and Hoy. If you want to look for anything negative, you'll easily find it. I was a motorbike courier in London for eight years and I quickly learnt not to let supposedly aggressive acts by other road users get to me. I think I would have had a breakdown if I did.

 

[Bicycle]

My mate had a 2CV, he proved it was possible to corner on two wheels. He also drove it for a while with a smashed windscreen after he threw the starter motor at it out of sheer frustration

Your mate might have been pulling your leg. They are almost impossible to get onto 2 wheels when driving in a forward gear.

Reverse is a different (and scary) subject, but in any forward gear that wonderful and unique suspension just keeps on giving.

If anyone has footage of a 2cv being cornered on two wheels and then returned to Earth in a semblance of full control, I'd love to see it.

(Not including racing versions, which usually had the longituinal suspension strapped down to devrease roll in corners).

Also, it is likely to have been the starting handle that he chucked through the windsceen, rather than the starter motor. The latter takes a few minutes to remove, whilst the former in clipped handily within easy reach of an angry driver.

Sorry, this is a cycling thread, but the idea of seeing a 2cv on 2 wheels amuses me. I tried many times. It is one of those things that many tried and the only ones who did it were alone, in the dark and nowhere near a camera....

 

[Chilternrides]

'T'aint drivers, or cyclists or motorcyclists, pedestrians etc. It's people.

We are selfish by nature, and anyone behaving outside of our own perceived parameters is seen as a nuisance / arm-hole, idiot or whatever else the individual decides.

Never been any different, never will be.*

*In my opinion that is!

 

[gbb]

I've been cycling regularly for 41-ish of my 47 years and have noticed little or no difference in attitudes to cycling from drivers and other road users.

I think that what may have appeared (to the outsider) to happen is that cycling has become significantly more high-profile and slightly tribal. This may make what was a fringe activity or simple daily practicality appear to be something more... something organised or tribal.

In my youth you either rode a bicycle or you didn't. You either had a bicycle of you didn't. Racing was a minority thing. Friends who rode Condor road-race bikes, competed and had rollers in the basement were few and far between. No-one could even say Colnago back in those days... it was all dark magic and whispers.

I think the profile began to change (London view here) in the mid-80s with the emergence of the early MTB and the cycle courier - although that was pre 'fixed-gear-fascination'.

Even amongst cyclists I hear dismissive comments about this or that type of rider, unheard of twenty years ago. Words like 'fakenger' are indicative of a community who are uncomfortable with other folk who travel as they themselves do. One frequently reads quite vitriolic entries from cyclists saying that fixie-mounted fakengers are only here until the next fashion comes along... Well, if they are, good for them. It's not really any of my business. I only drove a Golf until a better car came along.. I don't want to be mocked for that.

It's easier to disapprove of a recognisable group who can be identified and generalised about in the mass media. I think that's all that's happened.

I cycle regularly in London and the sticks and I feel no backlash. Most other road users are extraordinarily courteous towards me. Some are rude and some pay less attention to the road than they might, but it was ever so.

I think also that there may be a newish breed of cyclist who (knowingly or not) puts out a sort of sneering diffidence towards other road users. I think a lot of people who've been cycling for years find this sort of self-publicising moral-high-horse barrackroomery slightly embarrassing to be around. Many are the people I know who've got (like, seriously) into cycling in the last five or ten years and can drive dinner-party guests away in droves with their take on the hegemony of the motor car. They know every stage Cav ever won, but think that Fignon is a type of French biscuit.

This phenomenon combined with the current higher numbers of bicycles on the road and an unjustified feeling by some motorists that they're being 'got at' might give the impression of a backlash.

But I feel very little enmity when out riding - and certainly no more than I did in earlier life.

I cannot recall the last time I shook a fist at a car, had a word with the driver or knee-barged an FX4 (as I used to in the 80s). These days I spend a lot of time waving my thanks to drivers, but little of it feeling a need to admonish them. And I haven't lost my desire or ability to clip quickly through traffic, despite middle age.

It may also be that there's always a backlash there if you look for it... but I'm not sure I want to write that.

Amen. I don't buy any of this drivers sitting there fuming quietly at cyclists. I frequently read cyclists opinions that some wrongdoing by a another cyclist leaves drivers virtually thumping their dash in anger and building a hatred of cyclists. I dont buy that either. It doesnt set a good example and i'm sure plenty of drivers maybe think 'w-anchor'...but thats it, a minute later, its forgotten.

My perception of road users is pretty much the same as it always was. 99% of drivers are courteous 99% of the time.

'T'aint drivers, or cyclists or motorcyclists, pedestrians etc. It's people.

We are selfish by nature, and anyone behaving outside of our own perceived parameters is seen as a nuisance / arm-hole, idiot or whatever else the individual decides.

Never been any different, never will be.*

*In my opinion that is!

Amen to that as well.

Said this a while ago in another topic...i said to my dad (who's 82 and seen plenty)..'people are so judgemental nowadays in this country, always got to have an opinion on something'.
He replied...'no, the British have always been that way, always wanted to poke their noses in someone elses business'
That kinda surprised me. Perhaps you don't see it when you're younger.

 

[Davidc]

I agree with bicycle, except that in my case it's cycling on roads for 50 of 59 years, and driving on them for 37 of 59 years. During all of that time:

When I'm driving I meet some idiots in cars. I try to avoid colliding with them.
When I'm driving I meet some idiots on bikes. I try to avoid colliding with them.
When I'm cycling I meet some idiots in cars. I try to avoid colliding with them.
When I'm cycling I meet some idiots on bikes. I try to avoid colliding with them.

My observation FWIW, in London sometimes but now more often elsewhere, is that drivers are generally very much better in their behaviour towards cyclists now than they were in the past. In my time on a bike the worst behaviour was probably in the 1980s, at the same time cyclists were almost designed off the roads by traffic planners. So were pedestrians. Go back further, to the 60s and 70s, and the roads were just much more dangerous (with nearly 4 times the death and serious injury rate we have now, for all road users).

That said, I've never had much of a problem when driving or cycling - but have been hit hard by another car when in a car.

I don't think any more than a minute number of drivers actively seek to harrass or endanger cyclists. It's just a combination of poor driving, lack of attention, low awareness, and sometimes stupidity, that causes problems.